Re: [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training - Mailing list pgsql-general

Hi Chris

In my experience, you typically find the following types of
database roles within organizations.

The architect is the one who designs the database solution (hopefully
knowing the full capabilities and limitations of the database). SQL Users
are those that extract data from a predetermined database. The DBA's role
is to administer and tune the database to keep it running.

   Single       |     Departmental    |   Enterprise
   User         |     Server          |   System
-----------------------------------------------------
   Architect    |     Architect       |   Architect
   SQL User     |     DBA             |
   DBA          |                     |
-----------------------------------------------------
                |     SQL User        |   SQL User
-----------------------------------------------------
                |                     |   DBA

I know that this is a *gross* generalisation, but most people will fall
into one or a combination of the three roles above (I suspect). What I
have called an architect, you have called a specialist. It goes without
saying that the architect role is a superset of the SQL User role.

I'm not exactly sure how you would devise courses to meet the matrix above
(assuming that it's correct).

But what you're suggesting I think is definitely headed in the right
direction.

My only other comment is that moderately complex, well designed databases
make use of stored procedures/functions, (foreign key) constraints and
checks, and triggers. And maybe these should be included within the basic
section, and then become expanded on in a later course.

John

Chris Travers said:
> Hi John;
>
> I was actually looking at dividing it into the following areas (fairly
similar to your suggestion, actually):
>
> 1:  Basic competency:  Entry level dev/small time admin.  Basic database
design and operation concepts.  Basic SQL competency.
>
> 2:  Advanced competency:  performance tuning, trigger development,
advanced features.  Competent admin, mid-range dev.
>
> 3:  In depth advanced documentation for specialists:
>     * Enterprise DBA's
>     * Application developers using extremely advanced features         (2-phase
> commit, when supported, for example, in         distributed transactions).
>     * Developers of PostgreSQL modules (types, PL's, C functions,
>         advanced stored procedures).
>
> I think that it is important that dev's and dba's see things from
eachothers' perspective.  However, I do agree that at some point, there
is a divide which needs to be accepted rather than bridged.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
>
> On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 00:00, John Sidney-Woollett wrote:
>> If you considering a skills outline, also consider dividing it two areas;
>> developer and dba.
>> My experience is mostly with Oracle (more years than I care to
>> remember),
>> and with this product in many organizations, there are usually two camps;
>> the dba (God) and the developers (devils - always trying to break the db,
>> and annoy the dba)
>> >From watching this list for the past couple of weeks it appears that
>> many
>> members of this list are both developer (some of postgres itself and
others, users of postgres) and dba.
>> I think that the divide (with Oracle) is mostly political and cultural,
and that the best database solutions are those built by individuals or
teams that straddle both camps.
>> I've come to Postgres because I working with a startup that cannot afford
>> the Oracle web license. I suspect that a proportion of new users are also
>> those who have come from other databases for varying reasons (often
financial, missing feature set etc).
>> To cater for this "market", maybe it would be best to provide material
that caters specifically to the DBA, the developer, or those that want
to
>> be both.
>> Just my $0.02 (FWIW).
>> John Sidney-Woollett
>> Bruce Momjian said:
>> > Chris Travers wrote:
>> >> I am wondering if you are interested in helping with some sort of
>> skills
>> >> outline project-- what skills we as a community think are important
>> for
>> >> someone to claim basic mastery over the database manager.  Not as if
>> you
>> >> don't have enough to do already ;-)  Maybe at least as a mentor.
>> >
>> > Sure, makes sense.
>> >
>> > --
>> >   Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us               |  (610) 359-1001
>> >   +  If your life is a hard drive,     |  13 Roberts Road
>> >   +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Newtown Square,
Pennsylvania
>> > 19073
>> >
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