Re: drupal.org MySQL database issues - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy

On Thursday 17 May 2007 22:41, Shashank Tripathi wrote:
> On 18/05/07, Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> > On Thursday 17 May 2007 15:15, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> > > On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 02:52:41PM -0400, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> > > > I won't argue for or against any team members doing item b.  However,
> > > > Shashank noted that there *are* MySQL people doing this, and their
> > > > effort is paying off.  Ergo, if some of our community wanted to
> > > > expend effort in "integration efforts" rather than "promotion
> > > > efforts", Postgres would gain additional traction in the web hosting
> > > > community.  That's what Shashank is saying.
> > >
> > > Well, Shashank also said quite clearly that PostgreSQL is harder to
> > > use than MySQL in these cases.  Harder how?  I don't know, and I am
> > > surely not the person who can learn from experience, because nothing
> > > that I do puts me into any contact with making PostgreSQL play with
> > > plesk or any of that other stuff.
>
> Yes that is precisely what I said. MySQL and PgSQL both come as icons
> on my Cpanel. Now, because PgSQL had to be separately installed. With
> 8.x this is not as cumbersome as it used to be before, which
> practically kept people off it. Most people anyway, who did not want
> to spend days just to get something installed and working. MySQL by
> comparison was always a cinch to get working.
>
> But even today, when I have both MySQL and PgSQL, here is how they
> function:
>
> 1. MySQL: I login to cpanel, then I click on PhpMyAdmin and boom, I'm
> using the database. It.just.works.
>
> 2. PgSQL: I login to cpanel, then I click on PhpPgAdmin, and the login
> does not work. I try the password I have given to my entire root
> account, that doesn't work either. I then try the username and
> password for user 'psql' and that doesn't work either. I write to my
> hosting provider, and wait. Google finds this -
> http://faq.cpanel.net/show.cgi?qa=110252867609499 - which I personally
> understand, but I think, hmm this is why Johnny Average doesn't use
> Postgres yet.
>

The funny part about this is that when I have tried to look into things like
this in the past, I've been given the run-around, because c-panel is
proprietary code.  I suspect this probably is some kind of license violation
on code that I have helped write, but I try not to hold it against them...

> As for Cpanel, as much as people think it is 'crap', it is used for
> hosting nearly half the dedicated servers on the planet -- and with
> add-ons and skinning, it is among the most professional platforms out
> there; if not, please share your thoughts on alternatives.
>
> MySQL is being used on some of the biggest forums online, inter alia,
> which have about 20,000 users logged in at *any given time*. Imagine
> the number of queries going in from a BBS script. If Postgres could
> have a bit of this "it just works" mindshare, I am sure BBS would come
> with Postgres as the default too.
>
> And no, seeing Postgres being used on more hosts around the world will
> not kill us. We don't need to sit around tuning Postgres for anyone or
> any particular tools, or drop any effort for HOT and so forth. I am
> merely speaking of making just a little bit of extra effort, supported
> by this "open source group", to make it work with the big widespread
> platforms.
>

You seem to think that anyone who wants to fix this problem just can.
Remember, part of why mysql is so successful is that they can pay people to
do this.  What's more, they can pay the cpanel/plesk people to let them set
this up.  I've tried to help a number of people over the years with these
systems, and if the plesk/cpanel people want to hire me to work on this I
wouldn't turn them down, but honestly I'm not going to pay them to let me fix
thier broken system in my off hours.

> I do not run any Postgres-related training shops or businesses so I do
> not have any vested interests in promoting it, beyond simply loving
> the product, so feel free to take this suggestion with a grain of
> salt. I won't be surprised :)

I'm curious... you seem to have bridged the cpanel/postgres gap, have you
emailed your vendor with a list of changes they need to integrate into thier
product? Have you gotten any response from them?

I've said this before to people and it's true, this is not a problem we can
fix because cpanel is a commercial application, you need to put pressure on
the cpanel people.  If they need changes in PostgreSQL we can look at that,
but without them working on this problem it is never going to change.

--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL