Re: 8.2 features status - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

Andrew Dunstan wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I know about the same as the community members who pay attention to
> > postings.  What I do is to act on that information by contacting
> > developers and asking them to complete their work for feature freeze.
> > Many of my conversations are not appropriate for the public, which is
> > why it is done privately.
> >
> > In fact, the feedback I have gotten from some community members that
> > have heard a little of the discussions I have had with developers is
> > that I am too forceful.  I know that doesn't match my often non-critical
> > or even lax handling of things, but I take my community responsibility
> > seriously, and if someone has stated they are working on an item, I
> > expect them to take that pledge seriously as well.
> >   
> 
> Is that a response from other developers, or from those you have pressed 
> a bit? Perhaps the fact that the process is so very informal has led 

From other developers, not those I have pressed.

> people to false expectations anyway. Maybe if we were quite up front 
> about it people would not get upset. "If you say you will work on 
> feature X, expect an occasional ping from someone asking about progress."
> 
> > As far as people always asking for better tracking, they used to always
> > ask for a roadmap, and when we stated we couldn't because we have no
> > control over developers, they pointed to Mozilla, which had a roadmap at
> > the time (but we know what happened to them.)
> >   
> 
> This seems to me to be a case of the well known fallacy "post hoc ergo 
> propter hoc". The fact that mozilla had some less than good results does 
> not mean that everything they did was wrong.

My point is that we knew the idea was useless for us at the time, even
though people asked for it over and over again.

> > In the case of recursive queries, I did more than might have even been
> > polite to try to get the developer to complete it.  I don't see how
> > changing our system is going to improve it.  If you want to change the
> > system, find a system that would have actually done better than what we
> > have in place. 
> >
> > Or try a new system, and I will keep doing what I do, and we can see
> > which system works best.
> >
> >   
> 
> Excellent idea. We don't have to have a one size fits all set of 
> procedures anyway - in fact I think it might be a mistake. Maybe we 
> should select a few major features that people will work on for 8.3 and 
> try a different model. We could then assess things around this time next 
> cycle.

My big point is that we should choose a system that would have had a
better chance of completing features than what we have used in the past,
and no one has suggested one.

It is just like the bug tracker issue.  Many think we need a bugtracker,
but when I ask to see a project that has one that is better than what we
have now, no one responds.  Again, the same criteria should be applied
to this issue.

If people want to do something different with no objective hope it will
be better, feel free to go ahead and do it, but I can't get excited
about spending time on it.

--  Bruce Momjian   bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB    http://www.enterprisedb.com
 + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +