Re: [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training - Mailing list pgsql-general

Quoting Bret Busby <bret@busby.net>:

> On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Stephan Szabo wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:03:56 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Stephan Szabo <sszabo@megazone.bigpanda.com>
> > To: Bret Busby <bret@busby.net>
> > Cc: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org, pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training
> >
> > On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Bret Busby wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Bryan Encina wrote:
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, the result of the lack of formal, structured, PostgreSQL
> > > training and certification, and the apparent resistance to these, in
> > > the PostgreSQL community, is that, like the Perl people, the result is
> >
> > I don't think there's a resistance to them except that setting up training
> > and certification costs money. Some of us don't do this as a job at all,
> > some are in relatively small companies doing support/hosting and some are
> > in unrelated fields and just use it. The first and third group aren't
> > generally going to run training, it's outside what they do. The second
> > group generally either doesn't have the money to do it, or at least needs
> > it to be truly obviously profitable before they can really consider it.  A
> > small company that puts down a few months to set up training and then
> > doesn't get enough people to break even goes away, it's a pretty big risk.
> >
> >
>
> The resistance to which I referred, is exemplified in the discussion
> that I cited, from the google search.
>
> cf the thread "PostgreSQL certification", started by the query posted
> by Diogo Biazus, dated 24 October 2003, as found from the list archives.
>
> I was slightly incorrect, however, in that that thread was on the
> ADVOCACY list, not the GENERAL list as I had previously mentioned.
> However, it would have been found, by using the google seartch that I
> cited in my previous posting. Only four results to the google search,
> were displayed; the PostgreSQL mailing list discussion that I cited,
> being the first displayed result.
>
> The basis for the resistance, was apparently not a cost or time based
> opposition, but, opposition to certification itself; opposition to the
> concepts of certification and standardisation of skills assessment.
>
> Reading the messages of that thread, would lead to a better
> understanding of the opposition to certification.
>
> --
> Bret Busby
> Armadale
> West Australia
> ..............
>
> "So once you do know what the question actually is,
>  you'll know what the answer means."
> - Deep Thought,
>   Chapter 28 of
>   "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
>   A Trilogy In Four Parts",
>   written by Douglas Adams,
>   published by Pan Books, 1992
> ....................................................

Bret,

I think what the real religious argument here is that many, many people feel
"skills assessment" should NOT be linked to a product.  It should in fact be
linked to the underlying material a product is designed to manipulate.

If someone is more of an academic, I seriously doubt that they are going to seek
certification in a product.  9 out of 10 times, someone like that is going to be
able to pick up a product manual and be off and running.  However, if you are
new to the feild, 18-36 months at a tech school is going to be more appealing
than 48 to 60 months at a college.  Lets not forget that human being want what
they want when they want it.  Sooner for *most* people is better, especially
where money is involved,

The true motivation for certification is/was marketing.  Its just a different
piece of paper- some people go to traditional educational institutions and some
people chase certification for these newer tech schools.  Its all in the name of
being able to market oneself.

In one case however, education is product neutral which means you have a strong
base knowledge ready to be applied.  So you build product knowledge from there.
 In the other case, you learn products and in doing that you tend towards having
a strong base knowledge.  Of course, products also come and go and change much
more frequently than the base knowlege.

I've instructed at the collegiate level and at a tech school so I'm not gonna
hate on either approach.  What I've stressed is that a person should choose for
themselves which make the most sense.  Like always the "best" thing is not black
or white its somewhat in the grey. Corporations are definitely starting to
understand this.


--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

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