Thread: PG 18 release notes draft committed

PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
count looks strong:

    release-7.4:  263
    release-8.0:  230
    release-8.1:  174
    release-8.2:  215
    release-8.3:  214
    release-8.4:  314
    release-9.0:  237
    release-9.1:  203
    release-9.2:  238
    release-9.3:  177
    release-9.4:  211
    release-9.5:  193
    release-9.6:  214
    release-10:   189
    release-11:   170
    release-12:   180
    release-13:   178
    release-14:   220
    release-15:   184
    release-16:   206
    release-17:   182
    release-18:   209

I will continue improving it until beta 1, and until the final release. 
I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)

You can see the most current HTML-built version here:

    https://momjian.us/pgsql_docs/release-18.html

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Amit Langote
Date:
Hi Bruce,

On Fri, May 2, 2025 at 11:44 AM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.
>
> I will continue improving it until beta 1, and until the final release.
> I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)

Thanks as always for working on this.

I noticed the release notes currently combine several
partition-related commits under one item:

+<!--
+Author: Amit Langote <amitlan@postgresql.org>
+2025-01-30 [bb3ec16e1] Move PartitionPruneInfo out of plan nodes into PlannedSt
+Author: Amit Langote <amitlan@postgresql.org>
+2025-01-31 [d47cbf474] Perform runtime initial pruning outside ExecInitNode()
+Author: Amit Langote <amitlan@postgresql.org>
+2025-02-07 [cbc127917] Track unpruned relids to avoid processing pruned relatio
+Author: Amit Langote <amitlan@postgresql.org>
+2025-02-20 [525392d57] Don't lock partitions pruned by initial pruning
+Author: Amit Langote <amitlan@postgresql.org>
+2025-04-04 [88f55bc97] Make derived clause lookup in EquivalenceClass more effi
+Author: David Rowley <drowley@postgresql.org>
+2025-04-08 [d69d45a5a] Speedup child EquivalenceMember lookup in planner
+-->
+<listitem>
+<para>
+Allow partitions to be pruned earlier and quicker, and skipped in
more places (Amit Langote, Ashutosh Bapat, Yuya Watari, David Rowley)
+<ulink url="&commit_baseurl;bb3ec16e1">§</ulink>
+<ulink url="&commit_baseurl;d47cbf474">§</ulink>
+<ulink url="&commit_baseurl;cbc127917">§</ulink>
+<ulink url="&commit_baseurl;525392d57">§</ulink>
+<ulink url="&commit_baseurl;88f55bc97">§</ulink>
+<ulink url="&commit_baseurl;d69d45a5a">§</ulink>
+</para>
+</listitem>

But I think these really fall into three separate improvements:

1. Speed up execution of cached plans by deferring locks on partitions
subject to pruning (Amit Langote)
(bb3ec16e1, d47cbf474, cbc127917, 525392d57)

2. Speed up child EquivalenceMember lookup in planner (Yuya Watari,
David Rowley)
(d69d45a5a)

3. Speed up derived clause lookup in EquivalenceClass (Ashutosh Bapat)
(88f55bc97)

Alternatively, 2 and 3 can be combined as:

2. Speed up partition planning by improving EquivalenceClass lookups
(Yuya Watari, David Rowley, Ashutosh Bapat)

I think 1 should go under Partitioning, which I see is currently missing.

Any thoughts, David?

Can work on a patch if you'd like.

--
Thanks, Amit Langote



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Jacob Champion
Date:
On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 7:44 PM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)

Thanks!

>    <para>
>     Version 18 contains a number of changes that may affect compatibility
>     with previous releases.  Observe the following incompatibilities:
>    </para>
>    [...]
> Rename server variable ssl_ecdh_curve to ssl_groups and allow multiple colon-separated ECDH curves to be specified
(EricaZhang, Daniel Gustafsson) 

The previous setting name should continue to function correctly, since
it's mapped as an alias, so this can probably be moved into the
"standard" config features rather than a compatibility change.

--Jacob



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Fri, May  2, 2025 at 08:24:42AM -0700, Jacob Champion wrote:
> On Thu, May 1, 2025 at 7:44 PM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> > I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> >    <para>
> >     Version 18 contains a number of changes that may affect compatibility
> >     with previous releases.  Observe the following incompatibilities:
> >    </para>
> >    [...]
> > Rename server variable ssl_ecdh_curve to ssl_groups and allow multiple colon-separated ECDH curves to be specified
(EricaZhang, Daniel Gustafsson)
 
> 
> The previous setting name should continue to function correctly, since
> it's mapped as an alias, so this can probably be moved into the
> "standard" config features rather than a compatibility change.

Thanks, done.  The commit message didn't indicate the old name would
still work, and I didn't review the patch for that.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Fri, May  2, 2025 at 01:00:57PM +0900, Amit Langote wrote:
> 1. Speed up execution of cached plans by deferring locks on partitions
> subject to pruning (Amit Langote)
> (bb3ec16e1, d47cbf474, cbc127917, 525392d57)
> 
> 2. Speed up child EquivalenceMember lookup in planner (Yuya Watari,
> David Rowley)
> (d69d45a5a)
> 
> 3. Speed up derived clause lookup in EquivalenceClass (Ashutosh Bapat)
> (88f55bc97)
> 
> Alternatively, 2 and 3 can be combined as:
> 
> 2. Speed up partition planning by improving EquivalenceClass lookups
> (Yuya Watari, David Rowley, Ashutosh Bapat)
> 
> I think 1 should go under Partitioning, which I see is currently missing.
> 
> Any thoughts, David?
> 
> Can work on a patch if you'd like.

So, a few things.  First, these set of commits was in a group of 10 that
I added since there have been complaints in the past that optimizer
improvements were not listed and therefore patch authors were not given
sufficient credit.  That means the 209 item count for PG 18 is 10 higher
than my normal filtering would produce.

Second, looking at the items, these are a case of "X is faster", which
we don't normally mention in the release notes.  We normally mention
"faster" when it is so much faster that use cases which were not
possible before might be possible now, so it is recommended to retest.
That is what I saw this grouped item as, whereas I don't think the
individual items meet that criteria.

Also, I didn't see enough partition items to warrant a separate
partition section, and we didn't have one in PG 17 either.  We could
pull all the partition items from the sections they are already in, but
they seem more natural in the sections they are in.

I don't think most people would know what EquivalenceMember is, and even
if they did, would they be able to connect it to an SQL query?

Finally, I see the big increases in this release as being the optimizer,
monitoring, and constraints.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Fri, May  2, 2025 at 12:18:06PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Finally, I see the big increases in this release as being the optimizer,
> monitoring, and constraints.

Also, and I am loving the chapter markers linking to gitweb.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Jelte Fennema-Nio
Date:
On Fri, 2 May 2025 at 04:45, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>
> I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
> count looks strong:

Thanks for all the work. Some notes:

1. There's currently no mention that protocol version 3.2 was
introduced in this release. I'm not sure where/how this should be
mentioned, but I definitely think it should be somewhere. It's a
pretty major change. One option is to replace/amend the "Make cancel
request keys 256 bits" item. Maybe replace that with something like:
"Postgres 18 introduces protocol version 3.2. This is the first new
protocol version since 3.0, which was introduced in Postgres 7.4. This
new protocol version 3.2 allows a server to use longer cancel request
keys. When the client advertises support for protocol version 3.2 (or
higher) Postgres 18 will use a cancel key size of 256 bits."
2. Obviously biased since it's my contribution, but I think d38bab5
might deserve a mention.
3. The "Add PQtrace() output..." commitlist should also contain 7adec2d5fc



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sat, May  3, 2025 at 01:46:29AM +0200, Jelte Fennema-Nio wrote:
> On Fri, 2 May 2025 at 04:45, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> >
> > I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
> > count looks strong:
> 
> Thanks for all the work. Some notes:
> 
> 1. There's currently no mention that protocol version 3.2 was
> introduced in this release. I'm not sure where/how this should be
> mentioned, but I definitely think it should be somewhere. It's a
> pretty major change. One option is to replace/amend the "Make cancel
> request keys 256 bits" item. Maybe replace that with something like:
> "Postgres 18 introduces protocol version 3.2. This is the first new
> protocol version since 3.0, which was introduced in Postgres 7.4. This
> new protocol version 3.2 allows a server to use longer cancel request
> keys. When the client advertises support for protocol version 3.2 (or
> higher) Postgres 18 will use a cancel key size of 256 bits."

Okay, I added a mention next to the libpq version function entries.

> 2. Obviously biased since it's my contribution, but I think d38bab5
> might deserve a mention.

I disagree.  pgbench limits like this are not something we give much
detail around error avoidance to in the release notes.

> 3. The "Add PQtrace() output..." commitlist should also contain 7adec2d5fc

Added.  Patch attached.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.

Attachment

Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Jelte Fennema-Nio
Date:
On Sat, 3 May 2025 at 02:06, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>
> On Sat, May  3, 2025 at 01:46:29AM +0200, Jelte Fennema-Nio wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 May 2025 at 04:45, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
> > > count looks strong:
> >
> > Thanks for all the work. Some notes:
> >
> > 1. There's currently no mention that protocol version 3.2 was
> > introduced in this release. I'm not sure where/how this should be
> > mentioned, but I definitely think it should be somewhere. It's a
> > pretty major change. One option is to replace/amend the "Make cancel
> > request keys 256 bits" item. Maybe replace that with something like:
> > "Postgres 18 introduces protocol version 3.2. This is the first new
> > protocol version since 3.0, which was introduced in Postgres 7.4. This
> > new protocol version 3.2 allows a server to use longer cancel request
> > keys. When the client advertises support for protocol version 3.2 (or
> > higher) Postgres 18 will use a cancel key size of 256 bits."
>
> Okay, I added a mention next to the libpq version function entries.

I think it should be mentioned in the server section. How about we
replace: "This is enabled when the libpq client and server are
Postgres 18 or later. ", with the following:

This is only enabled when the client supports the wire protocol
version 3.2 (or up), Wire protocol version 3.2 is introduced in this
release. For libpq based clients that means that libpq needs to be of
version 18 or higher.

That also makes it clear that for non-libpq based clients people
should check if their client supports it.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
jian he
Date:
On Fri, May 2, 2025 at 10:44 AM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>
> I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
> count looks strong:
>         release-17:   182
>         release-18:   209
>
> I will continue improving it until beta 1, and until the final release.
> I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)
>
> You can see the most current HTML-built version here:
>
>         https://momjian.us/pgsql_docs/release-18.html
>

seems you missed this ([1]):

Detect redundant GROUP BY columns using UNIQUE indexes

d4c3a156c added support that when the GROUP BY contained all of the columns
belonging to a relation's PRIMARY KEY, all other columns belonging to that
relation would be removed from the GROUP BY clause. That's possible because all
other columns are functionally dependent on the PRIMARY KEY and those columns
alone ensure the groups are distinct.

[1] https://git.postgresql.org/cgit/postgresql.git/commit/?id=bd10ec529796a13670645e6acd640c6f290df020



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sat, May  3, 2025 at 01:16:24PM +0200, Jelte Fennema-Nio wrote:
> On Sat, 3 May 2025 at 02:06, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, May  3, 2025 at 01:46:29AM +0200, Jelte Fennema-Nio wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2 May 2025 at 04:45, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
> > > > count looks strong:
> > >
> > > Thanks for all the work. Some notes:
> > >
> > > 1. There's currently no mention that protocol version 3.2 was
> > > introduced in this release. I'm not sure where/how this should be
> > > mentioned, but I definitely think it should be somewhere. It's a
> > > pretty major change. One option is to replace/amend the "Make cancel
> > > request keys 256 bits" item. Maybe replace that with something like:
> > > "Postgres 18 introduces protocol version 3.2. This is the first new
> > > protocol version since 3.0, which was introduced in Postgres 7.4. This
> > > new protocol version 3.2 allows a server to use longer cancel request
> > > keys. When the client advertises support for protocol version 3.2 (or
> > > higher) Postgres 18 will use a cancel key size of 256 bits."
> >
> > Okay, I added a mention next to the libpq version function entries.
> 
> I think it should be mentioned in the server section. How about we
> replace: "This is enabled when the libpq client and server are
> Postgres 18 or later. ", with the following:
> 
> This is only enabled when the client supports the wire protocol
> version 3.2 (or up), Wire protocol version 3.2 is introduced in this
> release. For libpq based clients that means that libpq needs to be of
> version 18 or higher.
> 
> That also makes it clear that for non-libpq based clients people
> should check if their client supports it.

I moved the item and added some text, patch attached.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.

Attachment

Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sat, May  3, 2025 at 11:04:45PM +0800, jian he wrote:
> On Fri, May 2, 2025 at 10:44 AM Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> >
> > I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.  The item
> > count looks strong:
> >         release-17:   182
> >         release-18:   209
> >
> > I will continue improving it until beta 1, and until the final release.
> > I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)
> >
> > You can see the most current HTML-built version here:
> >
> >         https://momjian.us/pgsql_docs/release-18.html
> >
> 
> seems you missed this ([1]):
> 
> Detect redundant GROUP BY columns using UNIQUE indexes
> 
> d4c3a156c added support that when the GROUP BY contained all of the columns
> belonging to a relation's PRIMARY KEY, all other columns belonging to that
> relation would be removed from the GROUP BY clause. That's possible because all
> other columns are functionally dependent on the PRIMARY KEY and those columns
> alone ensure the groups are distinct.
> 
> [1] https://git.postgresql.org/cgit/postgresql.git/commit/?id=bd10ec529796a13670645e6acd640c6f290df020

We added this item to the PG 9.6 release notes:

    <!--
    2016-02-11 [d4c3a156c] Remove GROUP BY columns that are functionally dependent
    -->
           <para>
            Ignore <literal>GROUP BY</> columns that are
            functionally dependent on other columns (David Rowley)
           </para>
    
           <para>
            If a <literal>GROUP BY</> clause includes all columns of a
            non-deferred primary key, as well as other columns of the same
            table, those other columns are redundant and can be dropped
            from the grouping.  This saves computation in many common cases.
           </para>
          </listitem>

Interestingly, the first paragraph suggests this optimization already
works for unique indexes, but the text below it states it only works for
primary keys.

As a nod to PG 9.6, which was released in 2016, I duplicated that item
and reworded it for this commit.  :-)  Patch attached.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.

Attachment

Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Jelte Fennema-Nio
Date:
On Sat, 3 May 2025 at 18:19, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> I moved the item and added some text, patch attached.

LGTM, apart from the typo in the word "client' (it's spelled as
"cliient" in the diff).

Noticed a few other small things when rereading:

1. "Add libpq functions and environment..." should be "Add libpq
connection parameters and environment
2. "Allow the specification of non-overlapping PRIMARY KEY and UNIQUE
constraints" has no commit attached to it. I noticed this because it
wasn't fully clear to me what this feature entailed, so I wanted to
look at it in more detail.
3. "Report search_path changes to the client." is currently in the
libpq section, but this is a server-only change. So that seems a bit
strange. Not sure where to put it though.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Alexander Borisov
Date:
Hi hackers,

> I will continue improving it until beta 1, and until the final release.
> I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)
> 
> You can see the most current HTML-built version here:
> 
>     https://momjian.us/pgsql_docs/release-18.html
> 


I'm not sure, but I'll ask.

I have significantly improved the handling of Unicode Case in
PostgreSQL.
The improvements affect important functions such as lower(), upper(),
casefold().
Specifically, the patch has significantly reduced the size of Unicode
Case tables (and consequently the size of the object file).
We got a significant speed gain:
ASCII by ≈10%
Cyrillic by ≈80%
Unicode in general by ≈30%

But, unfortunately, I didn't see any mention of this improvement in the
release notes.
Hence the question to the community - are such improvements worth
mentioning?

I'm just new to the community, and want to understand.

Commit: 
https://git.postgresql.org/gitweb/?p=postgresql.git;a=commitdiff;h=27bdec06841d1bb004ca7627eac97808b08a7ac7

I am now actively working on a major improvement to Unicode
Normalization Forms.

Thanks!


-- 
Regards,
Alexander Borisov




Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sun, May  4, 2025 at 01:31:51AM +0300, Alexander Borisov wrote:
> Hi hackers,
> 
> > I will continue improving it until beta 1, and until the final release.
> > I will probably add markup in 1-3 weeks.  Let the feedback begin.  ;-)
> > 
> > You can see the most current HTML-built version here:
> > 
> >     https://momjian.us/pgsql_docs/release-18.html
> > 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure, but I'll ask.
> 
> I have significantly improved the handling of Unicode Case in
> PostgreSQL.
> The improvements affect important functions such as lower(), upper(),
> casefold().
> Specifically, the patch has significantly reduced the size of Unicode
> Case tables (and consequently the size of the object file).
> We got a significant speed gain:
> ASCII by ≈10%
> Cyrillic by ≈80%
> Unicode in general by ≈30%
> 
> But, unfortunately, I didn't see any mention of this improvement in the
> release notes.
> Hence the question to the community - are such improvements worth
> mentioning?
> 
> I'm just new to the community, and want to understand.
> 
> Commit: https://git.postgresql.org/gitweb/?p=postgresql.git;a=commitdiff;h=27bdec06841d1bb004ca7627eac97808b08a7ac7
> 
> I am now actively working on a major improvement to Unicode
> Normalization Forms.

Given the performance numbers above, which were not in the commit, maybe
I should add it to the case folding item, and add his name as a
co-author.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sat, May  3, 2025 at 09:40:47PM +0200, Jelte Fennema-Nio wrote:
> On Sat, 3 May 2025 at 18:19, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> > I moved the item and added some text, patch attached.
> 
> LGTM, apart from the typo in the word "client' (it's spelled as
> "cliient" in the diff).

Thanks, fixed.

> Noticed a few other small things when rereading:
> 
> 1. "Add libpq functions and environment..." should be "Add libpq
> connection parameters and environment

Fixed.

> 2. "Allow the specification of non-overlapping PRIMARY KEY and UNIQUE
> constraints" has no commit attached to it. I noticed this because it
> wasn't fully clear to me what this feature entailed, so I wanted to
> look at it in more detail.

Fixed.

> 3. "Report search_path changes to the client." is currently in the
> libpq section, but this is a server-only change. So that seems a bit
> strange. Not sure where to put it though.

Not sure.  The only idea I had was server configuration, which doesn't
match well.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Alexander Borisov
Date:
04.05.2025 01:47, Bruce Momjian wrote:

[...]

> Given the performance numbers above, which were not in the commit, maybe
> I should add it to the case folding item, and add his name as a
> co-author.
> 

I'm not a co-author, I'm the author of my own algorithm that
significantly improves PostgreSQL code.
The author of casefold() is Jeff Davis (and in general, as I understand,
Jeff is responsible for Unicode in Postgres).
I only suggested how to significantly improve the storage of Unicode
Case data and provide fast access to this data.
In other words, I improved, accelerated the algorithms.

Because of which the functions lower(), upper(), casefold() got a
significant boost.

-- 
Regards,
Alexander Borisov




Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sun, May  4, 2025 at 02:24:16AM +0300, Alexander Borisov wrote:
> 04.05.2025 01:47, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > Given the performance numbers above, which were not in the commit, maybe
> > I should add it to the case folding item, and add his name as a
> > co-author.
> > 
> 
> I'm not a co-author, I'm the author of my own algorithm that
> significantly improves PostgreSQL code.
> The author of casefold() is Jeff Davis (and in general, as I understand,
> Jeff is responsible for Unicode in Postgres).
> I only suggested how to significantly improve the storage of Unicode
> Case data and provide fast access to this data.
> In other words, I improved, accelerated the algorithms.
> 
> Because of which the functions lower(), upper(), casefold() got a
> significant boost.

It doesn't warrant its own item because it is not user-facing work.  The
best we can do is add the commit to an existing item and add you as a
co-author on an existing item.  You will see several items that are that
way already.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Alexander Borisov
Date:
04.05.2025 02:28, Bruce Momjian wrote:


> It doesn't warrant its own item because it is not user-facing work.  The
> best we can do is add the commit to an existing item and add you as a
> co-author on an existing item.  You will see several items that are that
> way already.
> 

Thank you for clarifying!
Users are not interested in performance gains.
Then it's not worth considering. Sorry to interrupt.

-- 
Regards,
Alexander Borisov




Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
On Sun, May  4, 2025 at 02:48:31AM +0300, Alexander Borisov wrote:
> 04.05.2025 02:28, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> 
> > It doesn't warrant its own item because it is not user-facing work.  The
> > best we can do is add the commit to an existing item and add you as a
> > co-author on an existing item.  You will see several items that are that
> > way already.
> > 
> 
> Thank you for clarifying!
> Users are not interested in performance gains.
> Then it's not worth considering. Sorry to interrupt.

So the logic is something I posted to this thread already:

    So, a few things.  First, these set of commits was in a group of 10 that
    I added since there have been complaints in the past that optimizer
    improvements were not listed and therefore patch authors were not given
    sufficient credit.  That means the 209 item count for PG 18 is 10 higher
    than my normal filtering would produce.
    
    Second, looking at the items, these are a case of "X is faster", which
    we don't normally mention in the release notes.  We normally mention
    "faster" when it is so much faster that use cases which were not
    possible before might be possible now, so it is recommended to retest.
    That is what I saw this grouped item as, whereas I don't think the
    individual items meet that criteria.

So, users are interested in performance in the sense it makes use cases
possible, and if your commit is making the case folding useful, we
should mention it in the release notes.  I don't think making it
separate would fit though.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        https://momjian.us
  EDB                                      https://enterprisedb.com

  Do not let urgent matters crowd out time for investment in the future.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Jelte Fennema-Nio
Date:
On Sun, 4 May 2025 at 03:21, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> So the logic is something I posted to this thread already:
>
>         So, a few things.  First, these set of commits was in a group of 10 that
>         I added since there have been complaints in the past that optimizer
>         improvements were not listed and therefore patch authors were not given
>         sufficient credit.  That means the 209 item count for PG 18 is 10 higher
>         than my normal filtering would produce.
>
>         Second, looking at the items, these are a case of "X is faster", which
>         we don't normally mention in the release notes.  We normally mention
>         "faster" when it is so much faster that use cases which were not
>         possible before might be possible now, so it is recommended to retest.
>         That is what I saw this grouped item as, whereas I don't think the
>         individual items meet that criteria.

Let me start off the yearly thread of people saying they disagree with
this filtering logic. I think there's an important utility of the
Release Notes that these logic is not covering well:

Many people read the release notes to see if upgrading is worth the
hassle & risk for them specifically. The aggregate of some small
performance improvements that apply to their queries could very well
push them over the edge. These performance improvements don't need to
"allow any new use cases" for that to be the case.

The filtering that you currently do makes the release notes much less
useful for people using the release notes for this purpose. Users
might very well care more about ~10% perf improvement for a feature
they use heavily, than all of the newly added SQL syntax combined.

> So, users are interested in performance in the sense it makes use cases
> possible, and if your commit is making the case folding useful, we
> should mention it in the release notes.  I don't think making it
> separate would fit though.

For this specific commit, I think if it had only changed the
performance of casefold(), then I'd agree that it should be grouped
with the casefold addition in the release notes. My reasoning would be
that there's no "diff" in performance since the previous release,
because the function did not exist in the previous release. So the
perf improvements are simply part of the "initial implementation" of
casefold from a user perspective.

However since this commit also impacts the very commonly used lower()
and upper() functions, I think that it would make sense if it got its
own entry. It's neither clear for me from the commit message nor the
skimming the original thread, whether the perf improvement numbers
listed by Alexander also apply to lower() and upper(), or if they only
apply to casefold():

On Sun, 4 May 2025 at 00:32, Alexander Borisov <lex.borisov@gmail.com> wrote:
> ASCII by ≈10%
> Cyrillic by ≈80%
> Unicode in general by ≈30%

If they apply the lower() and upper() I definitely think this patch
deserves a place in "General Performance".



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Jelte Fennema-Nio
Date:
On Fri, 2 May 2025 at 04:45, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> I have committd the first draft of the PG 18 release notes.

Some suggestions for additional commits to list for the items in the changelog:
1. I think 5070349102af12832c8528651c8ed18b16346323 should be listed
as a commit for "Add libpq connection parameters and environment
variables...". This commit contains a major part of the change that
allows supporting multiple protocol versions client side.
2. I think 9d9b9d46f3c509c722ebbf2a1e7dc6296a6c711d &
09be39112654c3f158098fdb5f820143c0330763 should be listed as a commits
for "Make cancel request keys 256 bits". These commits contain crucial
parts of that change. This would also put me in there as one of the
co-authors for this item.



Re: PG 18 release notes draft committed

From
Álvaro Herrera
Date:
Regarding these items

* Allow ALTER TABLE to set the NOT VALID attribute of NOT NULL constraints
  (Rushabh Lathia, Jian He)

* Allow NOT VALID foreign key constraints on partitioned tables (Amul Sul)

* Allow modification of the inheritability of constraints (Suraj Kharage, Álvaro Herrera)

  The syntax is ALTER TABLE ... ALTER CONSTRAINT ... [NO] INHERIT.

* Store column NOT NULL specifications in pg_constraint (Álvaro Herrera, Bernd Helmle)

  This allows names to be specified for NOT NULL constraint. This also adds NOT
  NULL constraints to foreign tables and NOT NULL inheritance control to local
  tables.


I think the wording and order of them is a bit unclear.  I would put the
last item first, immediately followed by the other two; alternatively we
could merge them all into a single one:

* Store NOT NULL constraints in pg_constraint for better preservability
  (Álvaro, Bernd, Suraj, Rushabh, Jian)

  The constraint names are well defined and are preserved across
  dump/restore.  Also, the NOT VALID and NO INHERIT properties work
  as expected and can be modified by users via ALTER TABLE.

Or something along those lines.

This one in particular:
  Allow modification of the inheritability of constraints (Suraj Kharage, Álvaro Herrera)

  The syntax is ALTER TABLE ... ALTER CONSTRAINT ... [NO] INHERIT.

only works with not-null constraints, which is why I suggest to merge
together with the above item.  Ideally, on the next release somebody
would work to make that feature more general (work with other types of
constraints).


I think this item
  Allow CHECK and foreign key constraints to be specified as NOT ENFORCED
  (Amul Sul)

  This also adds column pg_constraint.conenforced.

should come second or maybe even first in that section, as it is I think
the most user-visible.


These two items
  Allow NOT VALID foreign key constraints on partitioned tables (Amul Sul)

  Allow dropping of constraints ONLY on partitioned tables (Álvaro Herrera)

  This was previously erroneously prohibited.

can mostly be considered bug-fixes, so they should be last in the
section; they aren't new features, just making existing features work
correctly.  The one I have second is I think of lesser importance.

-- 
Álvaro Herrera        Breisgau, Deutschland  —  https://www.EnterpriseDB.com/
"I'm impressed how quickly you are fixing this obscure issue. I came from 
MS SQL and it would be hard for me to put into words how much of a better job
you all are doing on [PostgreSQL]."
 Steve Midgley, http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-sql/2008-08/msg00000.php