Thread: Autonomous transactions 2023, WIP
Hello. I'm working on the support of autonomous transactions in Postgres. Could you please make a preliminary review and give advices (see section #TODO) # Patch v0001-Autonomous-transactions.patch # Introduction This patch implements Autonomous Transactions for PL/pgSQL. Autonomous transaction is a transaction that can be succesfully commited even if base transaction is rolled back. Common use cases: logging/auditing/tracking progress in tables, so that information about the execution attempt is preserved even when the main transaction is rolled back — for example, due to an error. # Glossary Session - entity that groups multiple related SQL commands into a single transaction. Main session (backend, foreground session) - session through which the user interacts. Main transaction (parent) - transaction that runs in the main session. Autonomous session - session that performs an offline transaction. It starts from the main session. Autonomous transaction - independent transaction that runs inside an autonomous session. Autonomous function - function with the pragma AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION. When it is executed, an autonomous session is created in it. Background worker - background process that performs some actions in the background, without the user's participation. dsm - dynamic shared memory. shm_mq - shared memory message queue. # Internals This patch introduces a "pragma AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION" to functions. When one such function is executed all (at the current time not all, WIP) statements from it are executed in an autonomous session. * Example * *SQL-request:* ```sql CREATE TABLE tbl (a int); CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION func() RETURNS void LANGUAGE plpgsql AS $$ DECLARE PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION; BEGIN INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); END; $$; START TRANSACTION; SELECT func(); ROLLBACK; SELECT * FROM tbl; DROP FUNCTION func; DROP TABLE tbl; ``` *Output:* ```bash a --- 1 (1 row) ``` For each backend the patch lazily creates a pool of autonomous sessions. When backend calls autonomous function, backend takes one autonomous session from this pool and sends there function's statements for execution. When execution is finished backend returns session to pool. Lazily means that pool is created only when first autonomous session is needed. Backend and autonomous session communicate with the help of Postgres client-server protocol. Messages are sent through dynamic shared memory. Execution of backend and autonomous session is synchronous: autonomous session waits for messages from backendand backend waits for messages from autonomous session. Autonomous session uses Background workers internally. As it's a separate process, it contains caches, etc. In order to prevent infinite grow of resources usage we reset all caches by timeout using restart of autonomous sessions. This timeout is set by guc setting autonomous_session_lifetime. Source code contains more detailed comments. # Alternatives At the current time for this functionality may be uses extensions: dblink and pg_background. But they have shortcomings: 1) not in the Postgres core, they are extensions 2) lower performance. Each call creates new process that is destroyed immediately after transaction is finished. # TODO Could you please give advices how implement public pool shared between all backends? 1) Support execution of remaining statements in autonomous sessions. 2) Public pool shared between all backends. At the current time for each backend private pool is created. # Tests Implementation contains many regression tests of varying complexity, which check supported features. # Platform This patch was checkouted from tag 15.4. This is WIP. I've developed in Linux, code doesn't contain platfrom-specific code, only Postgres internal data structures and functions. # Documentation Regression tests contain many examples * Describe the effect your patch has on performance, if any. It adds a new feature and increase performance compared to dblink and pg_background # History ## 1st feature requests and discussions in pgsql-hackers (without code) 1) 2008 https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/1A6E6D554222284AB25ABE3229A9276271549A%40nrtexcus702.int.asurion.com 2) 2010 https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/AANLkTi%3DuogmYxLKWmUfFSg-Ki2bejsQiO2g5GTMxvdW2%40mail.gmail.com 3) 2011 https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/1303399444.9126.8.camel%40vanquo.pezone.net 4) 2011 https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Autonomous_subtransactions 5) 2011 https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/20111218082812.GA14355%40leggeri.gi.lan https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Autonomous_subtransactions ## Implementaion 1) 2014, Rajeev Rastogi, implementation based on subtransactions https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/BF2827DCCE55594C8D7A8F7FFD3AB7713DDDEF59%40SZXEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com 2) 2015, Rajeev Rastogi, new theme, continues discussion about semantics and syntax of autonomous transactions https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/BF2827DCCE55594C8D7A8F7FFD3AB7715990499A%40szxeml521-mbs.china.huawei.com 3) 2016, Peter Eisentraut, implementation based on background workers https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/659a2fce-b6ee-06de-05c0-c8ed6a01979e%402ndquadrant.com # Summary * Add pragma AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION in the functions. When function contains this pragma, the it's executed autonomously * Background workers are used to run autonomous sessions. * Synchronous execution between backend and autonomous session * Postgres Client-Server Protocol is used to communicate between them * Pool of autonomous sessions. Pool is created lazily. * Infinite nested calls of autonomous functions are allowed. Limited only by computer resources. * If another 2nd autonomous function is called in the 1st autonomous function, the 2nd is executed at the beginning, and then the 1st continues execution. -- Best wishes, Ivan Kush Tantor Labs LLC
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Hi
although I like the idea related to autonomous transactions, I don't think so this way is the best
1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile - it can be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this feature is proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous, because it means loss of possibility of logging.
2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
I don't propose exactly firebird syntax https://firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-psql-autonomous-trans.html, but I think this solution is better than ADA's PRAGMAs. I can imagine some special flag for function like
CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ...
AS $$
$$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION;
as another possibility.
3. Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres. One significant part of this project is elimination of global variables. It can be common with autonomous transactions.
Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. Maybe I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based.
Regards
Pavel
> On 15 Dec 2023, at 16:28, Ivan Kush <ivan.kush@tantorlabs.com> wrote: > > > > Hello. I'm working on the support of autonomous transactions in Postgres. > > # Summary > * Add pragma AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION in the functions. When function > contains this pragma, the it's executed autonomously > * Background workers are used to run autonomous sessions. > * Synchronous execution between backend and autonomous session > * Postgres Client-Server Protocol is used to communicate between them > * Pool of autonomous sessions. Pool is created lazily. > * Infinite nested calls of autonomous functions are allowed. Limited > only by computer resources. > * If another 2nd autonomous function is called in the 1st autonomous > function, the 2nd is executed at the beginning, and then the 1st > continues execution. Cool, looks interesting! As far as I know EnterpriseDB, Postgres Pro and OracleDB have this functionality. So, seems likethe stuff is in demand. How does your version compare to this widely used databases? Is anyone else using backgroud connections? Which syntax isused by other DBMS'? Looking into the code it seems like an easy way for PL\pgSQL function to have a client connection. I think this might workfor other PLs too. The patch touches translations ( src/backend/po/). I think we typically do not do this in code patches, because this workis better handled by translators. Best regards, Andrey Borodin.
> 1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile - it can be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this feature is proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous, because it means loss of possibility of logging. 1. We could add types for background workers. For each type add guc-settings, like max workers of each type. For examaple, for `common` leave `max_worker_processes` setting for backward compatibility enum bgw_type { common, autonomous, etc.... }; > 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL 2. Add `AUTONOMOUS` to `BEGIN` instead of `PRAGMA` in `DECLARE`? `BEGIN AUTONOMOUS`. It shows immediately that we are in autonomous session, no need to search in subsequent lines for keyword. ``` CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ BEGIN AUTONOMOUS INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); BEGIN AUTONOMOUS .... END; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; ``` > CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ... > AS $$ > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION; The downside with the keyword in function declaration, that we will not be able to create autonomous subblocks. With `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` or `BEGIN AUTONOMOUS` it's possible to create them. ``` -- BEGIN AUTONOMOUS CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ BEGIN INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); BEGIN AUTONOMOUS INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2); END; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; -- or PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ BEGIN INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); BEGIN DECLARE AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION; INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2); END; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; START TRANSACTION; foo(); ROLLBACK; ``` ``` Output: 2 ``` > it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL I didn't work out on other PLs at the current time, but... ## Python In plpython we could use context managers, like was proposed in Peter's patch. ``` with plpy.autonomous() as a: a.execute("INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1) "); ``` ## Perl I don't programm in Perl. But googling shows Perl supports subroutine attributes. Maybe add `autonomous` attribute for autonomous execution? ``` sub foo :autonomous { } ``` https://www.perl.com/article/untangling-subroutine-attributes/ > Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres. 3. Do you mean this thread? https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/31cc6df9-53fe-3cd9-af5b-ac0d801163f4%40iki.fi Thanks for info. Will watch it. Unfortunately it takes many years to implement threads =( > Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. Maybe I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based. I agree. No consensus at the current time. Pros of bgworkers are: 1. this entity is already in Postgres. 2. possibility of asynchronous execution of autonomous session in the future. Like in pg_background extension. For asynchronous execution we need a separate process, bgworkers are this separate process. Also maybe later create autonomous workers themselves without using bgworkers internally: launch of separate process, etc. But I think will be many common code with bgworkers. On 21.12.2023 12:35, Pavel Stehule wrote: > Hi > > although I like the idea related to autonomous transactions, I don't > think so this way is the best > > 1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile - it can > be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this feature is > proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous, > because it means loss of possibility of logging. > > 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA > more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL > > I don't propose exactly firebird syntax > https://firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-psql-autonomous-trans.html, > but I think this solution is better than ADA's PRAGMAs. I can imagine > some special flag for function like > > CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ... > AS $$ > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION; > > as another possibility. > > 3. Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres. > One significant part of this project is elimination of global > variables. It can be common with autonomous transactions. > > Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. Maybe > I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based. > > Regards > > Pavel > > -- Best wishes, Ivan Kush Tantor Labs LLC
> Is anyone else using backgroud connections? Don't know at the current time. Maybe EnterpriseDB uses bgworkers as Peter Eisentraut works there currently (LinkedIn says =)) And in 2016 he has proposed a patch with autonomous transactions with bgworkers. https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/659a2fce-b6ee-06de-05c0-c8ed6a01979e%402ndquadrant.com > Which syntax is used by other DBMS'? Main databases use: 1) PRAGMA in block declaration: Oracle, EnterpriseDB, this patch 2) AUTONOMOUS keyword near BEGIN keyword: PostgresPro, SAP HANA 3) AUTONOMOUS keyword in function declaration: IBM DB2 4) сompletely new syntax of autonomous block: Firebird 1 and 2 cases are the same, autonomicity by sub-blocks. Difference only in syntax, added to existing block definition 3 case autonomicity only by function (as keyword in function declaration) 4 case should we add completely new block definitions? # Oracle Uses PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION ``` CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION; BEGIN INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; ``` https://docs.oracle.com/cd/B13789_01/appdev.101/b10807/13_elems002.htm # EnterpriseDB Uses PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION; as in Oracle ``` CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION; BEGIN INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; ``` https://www.enterprisedb.com/docs/epas/latest/application_programming/epas_compat_spl/06_transaction_control/03_pragma_autonomous_transaction/ # PostgresPro * plpgsql Block construction in PL/pgSQL is extended by the optional autonomous keyword. ``` CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ BEGIN AUTONOMOUS INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); BEGIN AUTONOMOUS .... END; END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; ``` https://postgrespro.com/docs/enterprise/15/ch16s04 * plpython autonomous method that can be used in the WITH clause to start an autonomous transaction ``` with plpy.autonomous() as a: a.execute("INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);") ``` https://postgrespro.com/docs/enterprise/15/ch16s05 # IBM DB2 AUTONOMOUS keyword in function declaration ``` CREATE PROCEDURE foo() AUTONOMOUS LANGUAGE SQL BEGIN BEGIN AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION; INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); END: END; $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; ``` https://github.com/IBM/db2-samples/blob/master/admin_scripts/autonomous_transaction.db2 https://subscription.packtpub.com/book/programming/9781849683968/1/ch01lvl1sec09/using-autonomous-transactions # SAP HANA Also AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION option for blocks ``` CREATE PROCEDURE foo() LANGUAGE SQLSCRIPT AS BEGIN BEGIN AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); END; END; ``` https://help.sap.com/docs/SAP_HANA_PLATFORM/de2486ee947e43e684d39702027f8a94/4ad70daee8b64b90ab162565ed6f73ef.html # Firebird Completely new block definition `IN AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION DO` ``` CREATE PROCEDURE foo() AS BEGIN IN AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION DO INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); END; END; ``` https://firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-psql-autonomous-trans.html On 21.12.2023 14:26, Andrey M. Borodin wrote: > >> On 15 Dec 2023, at 16:28, Ivan Kush <ivan.kush@tantorlabs.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello. I'm working on the support of autonomous transactions in Postgres. >> >> # Summary >> * Add pragma AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION in the functions. When function >> contains this pragma, the it's executed autonomously >> * Background workers are used to run autonomous sessions. >> * Synchronous execution between backend and autonomous session >> * Postgres Client-Server Protocol is used to communicate between them >> * Pool of autonomous sessions. Pool is created lazily. >> * Infinite nested calls of autonomous functions are allowed. Limited >> only by computer resources. >> * If another 2nd autonomous function is called in the 1st autonomous >> function, the 2nd is executed at the beginning, and then the 1st >> continues execution. > Cool, looks interesting! As far as I know EnterpriseDB, Postgres Pro and OracleDB have this functionality. So, seems likethe stuff is in demand. > How does your version compare to this widely used databases? Is anyone else using backgroud connections? Which syntax isused by other DBMS'? > > Looking into the code it seems like an easy way for PL\pgSQL function to have a client connection. I think this might workfor other PLs too. > > The patch touches translations ( src/backend/po/). I think we typically do not do this in code patches, because this workis better handled by translators. > > > Best regards, Andrey Borodin. -- Best wishes, Ivan Kush Tantor Labs LLC
Hi
ne 24. 12. 2023 v 12:27 odesílatel Ivan Kush <ivan.kush@tantorlabs.com> napsal:
> 1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile - it
can be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this feature
is proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous,
because it means loss of possibility of logging.
1. We could add types for background workers. For each type add
guc-settings, like max workers of each type.
For examaple, for `common` leave `max_worker_processes` setting for
backward compatibility
enum bgw_type {
common,
autonomous,
etc....
};
Can you show some benchmarks? I don't like this system too much but maybe it can work enough.
Still I am interested in possible use cases. If it should be used only for logging, then we can implement something less generic, but surely with better performance and stability. Logging to tables is a little bit outdated.
Regards
Pavel
> 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA
more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
2. Add `AUTONOMOUS` to `BEGIN` instead of `PRAGMA` in `DECLARE`? `BEGIN
AUTONOMOUS`.
It shows immediately that we are in autonomous session, no need to
search in subsequent lines for keyword.
```
CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$
BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);
BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
....
END;
END;
$$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;
```
> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ...
> AS $$
> $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION;
The downside with the keyword in function declaration, that we will not
be able to create autonomous subblocks. With `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` or
`BEGIN AUTONOMOUS` it's possible to create them.
```
-- BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$
BEGIN
INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);
BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2);
END;
END;
$$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;
-- or PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS
CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$
BEGIN
INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);
BEGIN
DECLARE AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION;
INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2);
END;
END;
$$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;
START TRANSACTION;
foo();
ROLLBACK;
```
```
Output:
2
```
> it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
I didn't work out on other PLs at the current time, but...
## Python
In plpython we could use context managers, like was proposed in Peter's
patch. ```
with plpy.autonomous() as a:
a.execute("INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1) ");
```
## Perl
I don't programm in Perl. But googling shows Perl supports subroutine
attributes. Maybe add `autonomous` attribute for autonomous execution?
```
sub foo :autonomous {
}
```
https://www.perl.com/article/untangling-subroutine-attributes/
> Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres.
3. Do you mean this thread?
https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/31cc6df9-53fe-3cd9-af5b-ac0d801163f4%40iki.fi
Thanks for info. Will watch it. Unfortunately it takes many years to
implement threads =(
> Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. Maybe
I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based.
I agree. No consensus at the current time.
Pros of bgworkers are:
1. this entity is already in Postgres.
2. possibility of asynchronous execution of autonomous session in the
future. Like in pg_background extension. For asynchronous execution we
need a separate process, bgworkers are this separate process.
Also maybe later create autonomous workers themselves without using
bgworkers internally: launch of separate process, etc. But I think will
be many common code with bgworkers.
On 21.12.2023 12:35, Pavel Stehule wrote:
> Hi
>
> although I like the idea related to autonomous transactions, I don't
> think so this way is the best
>
> 1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile - it can
> be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this feature is
> proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous,
> because it means loss of possibility of logging.
>
> 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA
> more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
>
> I don't propose exactly firebird syntax
> https://firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-psql-autonomous-trans.html,
> but I think this solution is better than ADA's PRAGMAs. I can imagine
> some special flag for function like
>
> CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ...
> AS $$
> $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION;
>
> as another possibility.
>
> 3. Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres.
> One significant part of this project is elimination of global
> variables. It can be common with autonomous transactions.
>
> Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. Maybe
> I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based.
>
> Regards
>
> Pavel
>
>
--
Best wishes,
Ivan Kush
Tantor Labs LLC
On 24.12.2023 15:38, Pavel Stehule wrote: > Can you show some benchmarks? I don't like this system too much but > maybe it can work enough. > > Still I am interested in possible use cases. If it should be used only > for logging, then we can implement something less generic, but surely > with better performance and stability. Logging to tables is a little > bit outdated. > > Regards > > Pavel All use cases of pg_background, except asynchronous execution. If later add asynchronous execution, then all =) For example, also: * conversion from Oracle's `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` to Postgres. * possibility to create functions that calls utility statements, like VACUUM, etc. I don't have good benchmarks now. Some simple, like many INSERTs. Pool gives advantage, more tps compared to pg_background with increasing number of backends. The main advantage over pg_background is pool of workers. In this patch separate pool is created for each backend. At the current time I'm coding one shared pool for all backends. > > > > 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed > PRAGMA > more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL > > 2. Add `AUTONOMOUS` to `BEGIN` instead of `PRAGMA` in `DECLARE`? > `BEGIN > AUTONOMOUS`. > It shows immediately that we are in autonomous session, no need to > search in subsequent lines for keyword. > > ``` > CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ > BEGIN AUTONOMOUS > INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); > BEGIN AUTONOMOUS > .... > END; > END; > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; > ``` > > > CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ... > > AS $$ > > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION; > > The downside with the keyword in function declaration, that we > will not > be able to create autonomous subblocks. With `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` or > `BEGIN AUTONOMOUS` it's possible to create them. > > ``` > -- BEGIN AUTONOMOUS > > CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ > BEGIN > INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); > BEGIN AUTONOMOUS > INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2); > END; > END; > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; > > > -- or PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS > > CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$ > BEGIN > INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1); > BEGIN > DECLARE AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION; > INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2); > END; > END; > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql; > > > START TRANSACTION; > foo(); > ROLLBACK; > ``` > > ``` > Output: > 2 > ``` > > > it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL > > I didn't work out on other PLs at the current time, but... > > ## Python > > In plpython we could use context managers, like was proposed in > Peter's > patch. ``` > > with plpy.autonomous() as a: > a.execute("INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1) "); > > ``` > > ## Perl > > I don't programm in Perl. But googling shows Perl supports subroutine > attributes. Maybe add `autonomous` attribute for autonomous execution? > > ``` > sub foo :autonomous { > } > ``` > > https://www.perl.com/article/untangling-subroutine-attributes/ > > > > Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres. > > 3. Do you mean this thread? > https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/31cc6df9-53fe-3cd9-af5b-ac0d801163f4%40iki.fi > Thanks for info. Will watch it. Unfortunately it takes many years to > implement threads =( > > > Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. > Maybe > I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based. > I agree. No consensus at the current time. > Pros of bgworkers are: > 1. this entity is already in Postgres. > 2. possibility of asynchronous execution of autonomous session in the > future. Like in pg_background extension. For asynchronous > execution we > need a separate process, bgworkers are this separate process. > > Also maybe later create autonomous workers themselves without using > bgworkers internally: launch of separate process, etc. But I think > will > be many common code with bgworkers. > > > On 21.12.2023 12:35, Pavel Stehule wrote: > > Hi > > > > although I like the idea related to autonomous transactions, I > don't > > think so this way is the best > > > > 1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile - > it can > > be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this > feature is > > proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous, > > because it means loss of possibility of logging. > > > > 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA > > more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL > > > > I don't propose exactly firebird syntax > > > https://firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-psql-autonomous-trans.html, > > > but I think this solution is better than ADA's PRAGMAs. I can > imagine > > some special flag for function like > > > > CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ... > > AS $$ > > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION; > > > > as another possibility. > > > > 3. Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in > Postgres. > > One significant part of this project is elimination of global > > variables. It can be common with autonomous transactions. > > > > Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation. > Maybe > > I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based. > > > > Regards > > > > Pavel > > > > > -- > Best wishes, > Ivan Kush > Tantor Labs LLC > -- Best wishes, Ivan Kush Tantor Labs LLC
Hi
ne 31. 12. 2023 v 15:15 odesílatel Ivan Kush <ivan.kush@tantorlabs.com> napsal:
On 24.12.2023 15:38, Pavel Stehule wrote:
> Can you show some benchmarks? I don't like this system too much but
> maybe it can work enough.
>
> Still I am interested in possible use cases. If it should be used only
> for logging, then we can implement something less generic, but surely
> with better performance and stability. Logging to tables is a little
> bit outdated.
>
> Regards
>
> Pavel
All use cases of pg_background, except asynchronous execution. If later
add asynchronous execution, then all =)
For example, also:
* conversion from Oracle's `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` to Postgres.
* possibility to create functions that calls utility statements, like
VACUUM, etc.
almost all these tasks are more or less dirty. It is a serious question if we want to integrate pg_background to core.
I don't have good benchmarks now. Some simple, like many INSERTs. Pool
gives advantage, more tps compared to pg_background with increasing
number of backends.
The main advantage over pg_background is pool of workers. In this patch
separate pool is created for each backend. At the current time I'm
coding one shared pool for all backends.
I afraid so this solution can be very significantly slower than logging to postgres log or forwarding to syslog
>
>
> > 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed
> PRAGMA
> more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
>
> 2. Add `AUTONOMOUS` to `BEGIN` instead of `PRAGMA` in `DECLARE`?
> `BEGIN
> AUTONOMOUS`.
> It shows immediately that we are in autonomous session, no need to
> search in subsequent lines for keyword.
>
> ```
> CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$
> BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
> INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);
> BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
> ....
> END;
> END;
> $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;
> ```
>
> > CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ...
> > AS $$
> > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION;
>
> The downside with the keyword in function declaration, that we
> will not
> be able to create autonomous subblocks. With `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` or
> `BEGIN AUTONOMOUS` it's possible to create them.
>
> ```
> -- BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
>
> CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$
> BEGIN
> INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);
> BEGIN AUTONOMOUS
> INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2);
> END;
> END;
> $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;
>
>
> -- or PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS
>
> CREATE FUNCTION foo() RETURNS void AS $$
> BEGIN
> INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1);
> BEGIN
> DECLARE AUTONOMOUS_TRANSACTION;
> INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (2);
> END;
> END;
> $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql;
>
>
> START TRANSACTION;
> foo();
> ROLLBACK;
> ```
>
> ```
> Output:
> 2
> ```
>
> > it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
>
> I didn't work out on other PLs at the current time, but...
>
> ## Python
>
> In plpython we could use context managers, like was proposed in
> Peter's
> patch. ```
>
> with plpy.autonomous() as a:
> a.execute("INSERT INTO tbl VALUES (1) ");
>
> ```
>
> ## Perl
>
> I don't programm in Perl. But googling shows Perl supports subroutine
> attributes. Maybe add `autonomous` attribute for autonomous execution?
>
> ```
> sub foo :autonomous {
> }
> ```
>
> https://www.perl.com/article/untangling-subroutine-attributes/
>
>
> > Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in Postgres.
>
> 3. Do you mean this thread?
> https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/31cc6df9-53fe-3cd9-af5b-ac0d801163f4%40iki.fi
> Thanks for info. Will watch it. Unfortunately it takes many years to
> implement threads =(
>
> > Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation.
> Maybe
> I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based.
> I agree. No consensus at the current time.
> Pros of bgworkers are:
> 1. this entity is already in Postgres.
> 2. possibility of asynchronous execution of autonomous session in the
> future. Like in pg_background extension. For asynchronous
> execution we
> need a separate process, bgworkers are this separate process.
>
> Also maybe later create autonomous workers themselves without using
> bgworkers internally: launch of separate process, etc. But I think
> will
> be many common code with bgworkers.
>
>
> On 21.12.2023 12:35, Pavel Stehule wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > although I like the idea related to autonomous transactions, I
> don't
> > think so this way is the best
> >
> > 1. The solution based on background workers looks too fragile -
> it can
> > be easy to exhaust all background workers, and because this
> feature is
> > proposed mainly for logging, then it is a little bit dangerous,
> > because it means loss of possibility of logging.
> >
> > 2. although the Oracle syntax is interesting, and I proposed PRAGMA
> > more times, it doesn't allow this functionality in other PL
> >
> > I don't propose exactly firebird syntax
> >
> https://firebirdsql.org/refdocs/langrefupd25-psql-autonomous-trans.html,
>
> > but I think this solution is better than ADA's PRAGMAs. I can
> imagine
> > some special flag for function like
> >
> > CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION ...
> > AS $$
> > $$ LANGUAGE plpgsql AUTONOMOUS TRANSACTION;
> >
> > as another possibility.
> >
> > 3. Heikki wrote about the possibility to support threads in
> Postgres.
> > One significant part of this project is elimination of global
> > variables. It can be common with autonomous transactions.
> >
> > Surely, the first topic should be the method of implementation.
> Maybe
> > I missed it, but there is no agreement of background worker based.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Pavel
> >
> >
> --
> Best wishes,
> Ivan Kush
> Tantor Labs LLC
>
--
Best wishes,
Ivan Kush
Tantor Labs LLC
On 01.01.2024 09:47, Pavel Stehule wrote: > > > All use cases of pg_background, except asynchronous execution. If > later > add asynchronous execution, then all =) > > For example, also: > > * conversion from Oracle's `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` to Postgres. > > * possibility to create functions that calls utility statements, like > VACUUM, etc. > > > almost all these tasks are more or less dirty. It is a serious > question if we want to integrate pg_background to core. What do you mean by the "dirty"? > > I don't have good benchmarks now. Some simple, like many INSERTs. > Pool > gives advantage, more tps compared to pg_background with increasing > number of backends. > > The main advantage over pg_background is pool of workers. In this > patch > separate pool is created for each backend. At the current time I'm > coding one shared pool for all backends. > > > I afraid so this solution can be very significantly slower than > logging to postgres log or forwarding to syslog Maybe. Need to benchmark. Also OLAP like ClickHouse is better for storing logs. But in this case (log file -> database) a company needs to write a custom utility to load log file to the database: * detect file size, * load to database * autorotate file by timeout of filesize * etc. Some of our customers use "Autonomous transactions" for logging =) -- Best wishes, Ivan Kush Tantor Labs LLC
po 1. 1. 2024 v 12:15 odesílatel Ivan Kush <ivan.kush@tantorlabs.com> napsal:
On 01.01.2024 09:47, Pavel Stehule wrote:
>
>
> All use cases of pg_background, except asynchronous execution. If
> later
> add asynchronous execution, then all =)
>
> For example, also:
>
> * conversion from Oracle's `PRAGMA AUTONOMOUS` to Postgres.
>
> * possibility to create functions that calls utility statements, like
> VACUUM, etc.
>
>
> almost all these tasks are more or less dirty. It is a serious
> question if we want to integrate pg_background to core.
What do you mean by the "dirty"?
I don't think so these task should be implemented in stored procedures
>
> I don't have good benchmarks now. Some simple, like many INSERTs.
> Pool
> gives advantage, more tps compared to pg_background with increasing
> number of backends.
>
> The main advantage over pg_background is pool of workers. In this
> patch
> separate pool is created for each backend. At the current time I'm
> coding one shared pool for all backends.
>
>
> I afraid so this solution can be very significantly slower than
> logging to postgres log or forwarding to syslog
Maybe. Need to benchmark. Also OLAP like ClickHouse is better for
storing logs.
But in this case (log file -> database) a company needs to write a
custom utility to load log file to the database:
* detect file size,
* load to database
* autorotate file by timeout of filesize
* etc.
Some of our customers use "Autonomous transactions" for logging =)
I understand the motivation. But it was designed 20 years ago, and I don't see a reason why we need to implement the same "bad" patterns, mainly when the proposed implementation is not fully robust or can have performance issues.
--
Best wishes,
Ivan Kush
Tantor Labs LLC