Thread: Continuent & pgsql-announce ... please do not approve
All,
Continuent accidentally sent a non-PostgreSQL announcement to
pgsql-announce. They've asked us to NOT approve it (and said sorry).
-- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com
Someone else must have gotten it already, as there is nothin gin the queue at this point ... On Wed, 28 Jul 2010, Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > Continuent accidentally sent a non-PostgreSQL announcement to > pgsql-announce. They've asked us to NOT approve it (and said sorry). > > -- > -- Josh Berkus > PostgreSQL Experts Inc. > http://www.pgexperts.com >
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 02:28:52PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > Continuent accidentally sent a non-PostgreSQL announcement to > pgsql-announce. They've asked us to NOT approve it (and said > sorry). Got it. I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal email, just as I have every other time they've done this. I have never so much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any representative of that firm that it's OK to send me marketing email. If this were the first, or even close to the first time that they'd done something like this, I wouldn't bring this up. As it is, they have established, over years, a pattern and practice of unsolicited commercial email, and I'd like to propose that the domain get blocked from sending anything to postgresql.org until they have shown just exactly what measures they've taken in order to prevent this ever happening again. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > Got it. > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal email, > just as I have every other time they've done this. I have never so > much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any representative of > that firm that it's OK to send me marketing email. -1. Continuent is a great supporter of our community. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake(at)jabber(dot)postgresql(dot)org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:45:45PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > > > Got it. > > > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal > > email, just as I have every other time they've done this. I have > > never so much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any > > representative of that firm that it's OK to send me marketing > > email. > > -1. > > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 17:47 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:45:45PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > > > > > Got it. > > > > > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal > > > email, just as I have every other time they've done this. I have > > > never so much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any > > > representative of that firm that it's OK to send me marketing > > > email. > > > > -1. > > > > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. > > Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. Have you considered using their nice link: ______________________________________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: http://cts.vresp.com/u?2c9d95b1e2/f8eb00ee56/mlpftw ______________________________________________________________________ This message was sent by Continuent Webinar using VerticalResponse Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 06:04:34PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 17:47 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:45:45PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > > > > > > > Got it. > > > > > > > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal > > > > email, just as I have every other time they've done this. I have > > > > never so much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any > > > > representative of that firm that it's OK to send me marketing > > > > email. > > > > > > -1. > > > > > > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. > > > > Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. > > Have you considered using their nice link: Opt-out is what spammers allege they honor. The problem is that "honor" and "spammer" only belong in a sentence with a negation in between. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
David Fetter wrote: > Opt-out is what spammers allege they honor. The problem is that > "honor" and "spammer" only belong in a sentence with a negation in > between. > I am currently subscribed to their marketing list at two e-mail addresses. I just unsubscribed one of them using the link at the bottom of the message. The next time I see an announcement go out on the other address, I'll be happy to report on whether the other was was removed or not. Since, as you say, one component of whether a company is doing the worst of the common spammer behaviors is whether they honor opt-out requests, I think it would be reasonable to actually test that before breaking out the pitchforks. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 17:47 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:45:45PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > > > > > Got it. > > > > > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal > > > email, just as I have every other time they've done this. I have > > > never so much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any > > > representative of that firm that it's OK to send me marketing > > > email. > > > > -1. > > > > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. > > Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. Have you considered using their nice link: ______________________________________________________________________ If you no longer wish to receive these emails, please reply to this message with "Unsubscribe" in the subject line or simply click on the following link: http://cts.vresp.com/u?2c9d95b1e2/f8eb00ee56/mlpftw ______________________________________________________________________ This message was sent by Continuent Webinar using VerticalResponse Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 17:47 -0700, David Fetter wrote: >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:45:45PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: >> > >> > > Got it. >> > > >> > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my personal >> > > email, just as I have every other time they've done this. I have >> > > never so much as vaguely intimated to Continuent or to any >> > > representative of that firm that it's OK to send me marketing >> > > email. >> > >> > -1. >> > >> > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. >> >> Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. > > Have you considered using their nice link: I have. And I've had Robert remove me from their lists on numerous occasions, yet I still keep getting spammed. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:06:48AM +0100, Dave Page wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 2010-07-28 at 17:47 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 05:45:45PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:42:44 -0700, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Got it. > >> > > > >> > > I have another copy of this silliness that went to my > >> > > personal email, just as I have every other time they've done > >> > > this. I have never so much as vaguely intimated to > >> > > Continuent or to any representative of that firm that it's OK > >> > > to send me marketing email. > >> > > >> > -1. > >> > > >> > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. > >> > >> Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming > >> license. > > > > Have you considered using their nice link: > > I have. And I've had Robert remove me from their lists on numerous > occasions, yet I still keep getting spammed. This is precisely the "pattern and practice" to which I earlier referred. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 09:24:08PM -0400, Greg Smith wrote: > David Fetter wrote: > >Opt-out is what spammers allege they honor. The problem is that > >"honor" and "spammer" only belong in a sentence with a negation in > >between. > > I am currently subscribed to their marketing list at two e-mail > addresses. I just unsubscribed one of them using the link at the > bottom of the message. The next time I see an announcement go out > on the other address, I'll be happy to report on whether the other > was was removed or not. Since, as you say, one component of whether > a company is doing the worst of the common spammer behaviors is > whether they honor opt-out requests, I think it would be reasonable > to actually test that before breaking out the pitchforks. If there weren't any history, this would be a reasonable test. There is a history, it's years long, and it doesn't give any reasonable hope that what you've done will work this time, as opposed to all the other times people have tried it. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, David Fetter wrote: > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 09:24:08PM -0400, Greg Smith wrote: >> David Fetter wrote: >>> Opt-out is what spammers allege they honor. The problem is that >>> "honor" and "spammer" only belong in a sentence with a negation in >>> between. >> >> I am currently subscribed to their marketing list at two e-mail >> addresses. I just unsubscribed one of them using the link at the >> bottom of the message. The next time I see an announcement go out >> on the other address, I'll be happy to report on whether the other >> was was removed or not. Since, as you say, one component of whether >> a company is doing the worst of the common spammer behaviors is >> whether they honor opt-out requests, I think it would be reasonable >> to actually test that before breaking out the pitchforks. > > If there weren't any history, this would be a reasonable test. There > is a history, it's years long, and it doesn't give any reasonable hope > that what you've done will work this time, as opposed to all the other > times people have tried it. > > Cheers, > David. > -- > David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ > Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter > Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com > iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics > > Remember to vote! > Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. scrappy@hub.org http://www.hub.org Yahoo:yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ:7615664 MSN:scrappy@hub.org
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of having > them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I will speak with him. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > You ask the wrong person, you get the wrong result. Robert Hodges is the > CTO and has no business worrying about mailing lists. The person you > need to talk to is Eeryi (sp?). He is the marketing person. I spoke to Robert because I know him, and he knows the right people. I don't think it should be a requirement that I know the precise person in charge to get off a mailing list. > I am not saying they are not in the wrong here but really, if we want > actual progress to be made we need to document the appropriate steps and > follow them (thus use their unsubscribe links). Which, as I have pointed out, I have also done. I should point out that I have nothing against Continuent, and this is presumably some sort of procedural issue in how they manage their contact lists, rather than intentional spamming. But it is starting to be come tiresome. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 08:53:38AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of > > having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? > > I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I > will speak with him. Didn't you *just* say, in this thread, that he's the wrong guy to contact for this kind of thing? Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 08:57 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 08:53:38AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of > > > having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? > > > > I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I > > will speak with him. > > Didn't you *just* say, in this thread, that he's the wrong guy to > contact for this kind of thing? I don't expect Robert to fix it. I expect Robert to get me on the line with the right guy. Come on people, good lord. Joshua D. Drake > > Cheers, > David. -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 4:57 PM, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 08:53:38AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of >> > having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? >> >> I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I >> will speak with him. > > Didn't you *just* say, in this thread, that he's the wrong guy to > contact for this kind of thing? LOL. I didn't spot that :-) -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:01:15AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 08:57 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 08:53:38AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility > > > > of having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? > > > > > > I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good > > > relationship. I will speak with him. > > > > Didn't you *just* say, in this thread, that he's the wrong guy to > > contact for this kind of thing? > > I don't expect Robert to fix it. I expect Robert to get me on the > line with the right guy. > > Come on people, good lord. No, *you* come on. This company has a long, consistent, and bad track record as far as unsolicited contacts for commercial stuff, i.e. spam. Unless we're going to turn our lists over to spammers, that track record needs to have real, serious consequences. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:08 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > Come on people, good lord. > > No, *you* come on. > > This company has a long, consistent, and bad track record as far as > unsolicited contacts for commercial stuff, i.e. spam. Unless we're > going to turn our lists over to spammers, that track record needs to > have real, serious consequences. No. You are jumping a cliff here. Your personal spam problems are not a .Org problem. You got a problem deal with it on your own personal spam solution. Continuent did NOTHING WRONG (from a .Org perspective). They sent a single announcement to -announce. A Moderated list. A moderator deemed it was not appropriate. It was rejected. Exactly how it is supposed to be. Now please, get off your soap box, adjust your spam filter and do something productive with your day. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake > > Cheers, > David. -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
If you want shit to roll downhill, you have to start at the Top? On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, David Fetter wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 08:53:38AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>> Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of >>> having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? >> >> I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I >> will speak with him. > > Didn't you *just* say, in this thread, that he's the wrong guy to > contact for this kind of thing? > > Cheers, > David. > -- > David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ > Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter > Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com > iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics > > Remember to vote! > Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. scrappy@hub.org http://www.hub.org Yahoo:yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ:7615664 MSN:scrappy@hub.org
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:22:56AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:08 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > > > Come on people, good lord. > > > > No, *you* come on. > > > > This company has a long, consistent, and bad track record as far as > > unsolicited contacts for commercial stuff, i.e. spam. Unless we're > > going to turn our lists over to spammers, that track record needs to > > have real, serious consequences. > > No. You are jumping a cliff here. Nope. So far, you're the only person in this discussion who appears to think they should get a free pass. All others range from "ban immediately" to "see whether they misbehave yet again." Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 10:23 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:22:56AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:08 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > > > > > Come on people, good lord. > > > > > > No, *you* come on. > > > > > > This company has a long, consistent, and bad track record as far as > > > unsolicited contacts for commercial stuff, i.e. spam. Unless we're > > > going to turn our lists over to spammers, that track record needs to > > > have real, serious consequences. > > > > No. You are jumping a cliff here. > > Nope. So far, you're the only person in this discussion who appears > to think they should get a free pass. All others range from "ban > immediately" to "see whether they misbehave yet again." Interesting how you completely ignored the fact at hand. They have no offense against .Org. Just specific (and very few) individuals who happen to contribute to .Org. .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a different bully against that foe. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake > > Cheers, > David. -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
> Interesting how you completely ignored the fact at hand. They have no
> offense against .Org. Just specific (and very few) individuals who
> happen to contribute to .Org.
Let me point out that Continuent also has contributed code, sponsored
hacking, sponsored events, and I'm about to ask them to buy pizza for
SFPUG next month, as they have in the past, and which you have eaten. I
think that outweighs a little spam, especially when they realize they
have a spam problem and have improved. Have a sense of proportion, David.
Frankly, their spam issue is hurting them more than it does anyone else;
their PR dept frequently and repeatedly announces products which haven't
been released yet (Tungsten, anyone?). Given that level of pathology,
I'm more inclined to sympathize with Eero than chastise him. No doubt
their PR firm was picked by the VCs and neither Eero not Robert have any
real control over them.
BTW, most likely you got on the Continuent spam list by attending a
conference such as LinuxWorld. I know I did. Just unsuscribe.
-- -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a > different bully against that foe. I think JD has this one right. There may or may not be a reason to ban Continuent (or anyone else) from our mailing lists, but the fact that they've sent spam to David Fetter in his personal capacity is not it. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a >> different bully against that foe. > > I think JD has this one right. There may or may not be a reason to > ban Continuent (or anyone else) from our mailing lists, but the fact > that they've sent spam to David Fetter in his personal capacity is not > it. +1 -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, Dave Page wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 9:30 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >>> .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a >>> different bully against that foe. >> >> I think JD has this one right. There may or may not be a reason to >> ban Continuent (or anyone else) from our mailing lists, but the fact >> that they've sent spam to David Fetter in his personal capacity is not >> it. > > +1 +1 ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. scrappy@hub.org http://www.hub.org Yahoo:yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ:7615664 MSN:scrappy@hub.org
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 04:30:05PM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a > > different bully against that foe. > > I think JD has this one right. There may or may not be a reason to > ban Continuent (or anyone else) from our mailing lists, but the fact > that they've sent spam to David Fetter in his personal capacity is not > it. For future reference, what *would* be a sufficient reason? I have this feeling that this situation will recur, even if this particular outfit decides to play nice, so we might as well knock together some criteria in advance. Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 5:11 PM, David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 04:30:05PM -0400, Robert Haas wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> > .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a >> > different bully against that foe. >> >> I think JD has this one right. There may or may not be a reason to >> ban Continuent (or anyone else) from our mailing lists, but the fact >> that they've sent spam to David Fetter in his personal capacity is not >> it. > > For future reference, what *would* be a sufficient reason? I have > this feeling that this situation will recur, even if this particular > outfit decides to play nice, so we might as well knock together some > criteria in advance. I presume that would be if they were spamming *the lists*, rather than some individual. -- Robert Haas EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise Postgres Company
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:06 +0100, Dave Page wrote: > >> > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. > >> > >> Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. > > > > Have you considered using their nice link: > > I have. And I've had Robert remove me from their lists on numerous > occasions, yet I still keep getting spammed. You ask the wrong person, you get the wrong result. Robert Hodges is the CTO and has no business worrying about mailing lists. The person you need to talk to is Eeryi (sp?). He is the marketing person. Joshua D. Drake I am not saying they are not in the wrong here but really, if we want actual progress to be made we need to document the appropriate steps and follow them (thus use their unsubscribe links). Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of having > them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I will speak with him. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 08:57 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 08:53:38AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 12:13 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > Has anyone gotten ahold of them about it, with the possibility of > > > having them banned from our lists as a result of inaction? > > > > I have a call in with Robert Hodges. We have a good relationship. I > > will speak with him. > > Didn't you *just* say, in this thread, that he's the wrong guy to > contact for this kind of thing? I don't expect Robert to fix it. I expect Robert to get me on the line with the right guy. Come on people, good lord. Joshua D. Drake > > Cheers, > David. -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:08 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > Come on people, good lord. > > No, *you* come on. > > This company has a long, consistent, and bad track record as far as > unsolicited contacts for commercial stuff, i.e. spam. Unless we're > going to turn our lists over to spammers, that track record needs to > have real, serious consequences. No. You are jumping a cliff here. Your personal spam problems are not a .Org problem. You got a problem deal with it on your own personal spam solution. Continuent did NOTHING WRONG (from a .Org perspective). They sent a single announcement to -announce. A Moderated list. A moderator deemed it was not appropriate. It was rejected. Exactly how it is supposed to be. Now please, get off your soap box, adjust your spam filter and do something productive with your day. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake > > Cheers, > David. -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 10:23 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 09:22:56AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:08 -0700, David Fetter wrote: > > > > > > Come on people, good lord. > > > > > > No, *you* come on. > > > > > > This company has a long, consistent, and bad track record as far as > > > unsolicited contacts for commercial stuff, i.e. spam. Unless we're > > > going to turn our lists over to spammers, that track record needs to > > > have real, serious consequences. > > > > No. You are jumping a cliff here. > > Nope. So far, you're the only person in this discussion who appears > to think they should get a free pass. All others range from "ban > immediately" to "see whether they misbehave yet again." Interesting how you completely ignored the fact at hand. They have no offense against .Org. Just specific (and very few) individuals who happen to contribute to .Org. .Org is not the weight behind your SPAM complaints. You will need a different bully against that foe. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake > > Cheers, > David. -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
Dave Page wrote: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > >> Have you considered using their nice link: >> > > I have. And I've had Robert remove me from their lists on numerous > occasions, yet I still keep getting spammed. > Thanks for the report. I've been on the receiving end of way too many excessive spam vigilante blacklists to start suggesting a ban on someone without at least getting a confirmation that their unsubscribe link doesn't work from someone who's tried it. One of my outgoing mail servers is back on Spamhaus's list again this week, after they banned a whole /24 block at the ISP over one hosting account that sent out a single message. Really don't want to be that rude if someone's only sin is aggressively getting mailing lists worth of people from sources like conferences, who we all know perfectly well are perfectly capable of selling all our data. I think they need to institutionalize the permanent blacklist at Continuent: once you're on it, you never get a message again even if your name comes back up via a new source. This is a different concept from the "we'll remove you if you ask" concept, which is ripe with opportunities to just get signed right back up again when new list sources appear. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
On Thu, 2010-07-29 at 09:06 +0100, Dave Page wrote: > >> > Continuent is a great supporter of our community. > >> > >> Neither their wallet nor anything else gives them a spamming license. > > > > Have you considered using their nice link: > > I have. And I've had Robert remove me from their lists on numerous > occasions, yet I still keep getting spammed. You ask the wrong person, you get the wrong result. Robert Hodges is the CTO and has no business worrying about mailing lists. The person you need to talk to is Eeryi (sp?). He is the marketing person. Joshua D. Drake I am not saying they are not in the wrong here but really, if we want actual progress to be made we need to document the appropriate steps and follow them (thus use their unsubscribe links). Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt