Thread: Proposed new policy for Training events
All, We're getting some abuse on the training event front, and I'd like to pass a new policy: Frequency: no company may list more than three training events per quarter. If the company has more training than that, they are encouraged to post links to their own web page schedule. Content: Training events will include *one paragraph* of descriptive content, describing in a factual way what the contents of the training is. Hyperbole, competitive messaging, and offers of free gifts are prohibited. Currently CertFirst is spamming us with more than 20 training events offering a free iPod and containing ALL CAPS and many exclamations!!!!!! as well as about 2 pages of text each. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. www.pgexperts.com
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Josh Berkus<josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > All, > > We're getting some abuse on the training event front, and I'd like to pass a > new policy: > > Frequency: no company may list more than three training events per quarter. > If the company has more training than that, they are encouraged to post > links to their own web page schedule. That really doesn't work as the listings are supposed to in a calendar of sorts. Besides, whilst the latest posts are most certainly taking the mickey, most other companies will post more than 3 events per quarter, quite legitimately. I feel it's important for our events listings to show the breadth and frequency of the training available. > Content: Training events will include *one paragraph* of descriptive > content, describing in a factual way what the contents of the training is. I see no reason for this restriction. Look back at past submissions from companies other than the one that triggered this. Most will have more than one paragraph of text, and most is useful information. > Hyperbole, competitive messaging, and offers of free gifts are prohibited. No objections. > Currently xxxx is spamming us with more than 20 training events > offering a free iPod and containing ALL CAPS and many exclamations!!!!!! as > well as about 2 pages of text each. Meh. I should read the whole of your message before going out of my way not to mention the name of the company involved. The fact is, we *only* seem to get complaints about this particular company, who operate right on the border of what most of us seem to consider acceptable, and most of those third party complaints seem to be un-verifiable which has previously meant we've not taken any action against them. I think we should take all these past complaints and problems into account, make the assumption that there isn't a continuous stream of smoke without an actual fire and stop accepting postings from them in the future. /D
On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 21:09 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > All, > > We're getting some abuse on the training event front, and I'd like to > pass a new policy: > > Frequency: no company may list more than three training events per > quarter. If the company has more training than that, they are > encouraged to post links to their own web page schedule. > > Content: Training events will include *one paragraph* of descriptive > content, describing in a factual way what the contents of the training > is. Hyperbole, competitive messaging, and offers of free gifts are > prohibited. > > Currently CertFirst is spamming us with more than 20 training events > offering a free iPod and containing ALL CAPS and many exclamations!!!!!! > as well as about 2 pages of text each. This is a moderator problem. They should not be approved in that matter. We don't need a "new" policy. We need moderators to practice better discretion. Joshua D. Drake > > -- > Josh Berkus > PostgreSQL Experts Inc. > www.pgexperts.com > -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
This is not a moderation problem. This is an architecture problem. We currently accept one event per city, and that is the main reason for this problem. Training events often happen in many plances, being the case they are provided by cross-world/country organizations, at the same time. (check screenshot) What if we tweak that? gb.- On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 21:09 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: >> All, >> >> We're getting some abuse on the training event front, and I'd like to >> pass a new policy: >> >> Frequency: no company may list more than three training events per >> quarter. If the company has more training than that, they are >> encouraged to post links to their own web page schedule. >> >> Content: Training events will include *one paragraph* of descriptive >> content, describing in a factual way what the contents of the training >> is. Hyperbole, competitive messaging, and offers of free gifts are >> prohibited. >> >> Currently CertFirst is spamming us with more than 20 training events >> offering a free iPod and containing ALL CAPS and many exclamations!!!!!! >> as well as about 2 pages of text each. > > This is a moderator problem. They should not be approved in that matter. > We don't need a "new" policy. We need moderators to practice better > discretion. > > Joshua D. Drake > > >> >> -- >> Josh Berkus >> PostgreSQL Experts Inc. >> www.pgexperts.com >> > -- > PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org > Consulting, Development, Support, Training > 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ > The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 > > > -- > Sent via pgsql-www mailing list (pgsql-www@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www >
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On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 13:56 -0300, Guido Barosio wrote: > This is not a moderation problem. > I do not agree. Certain companies who submit don't actually fulfill their classes. They spam with potential classes in hopes to fill it and keep there name out there. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
JD, thoughts are thoughts, appreciate your input. BUT, we need to take an action on this matter. And that is what Josh is asking for, whereas I also agree with him. BTW: What do you mean by "moderators should practice better discretion" ? Yours, GB.- On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Joshua D. Drake<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 13:56 -0300, Guido Barosio wrote: >> This is not a moderation problem. >> > > I do not agree. Certain companies who submit don't actually fulfill > their classes. They spam with potential classes in hopes to fill it and > keep there name out there. > > Joshua D. Drake > > > -- > PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org > Consulting, Development, Support, Training > 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ > The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 > >
Dave, > The fact is, we *only* seem to get complaints about this particular > company, who operate right on the border of what most of us seem to > consider acceptable, and most of those third party complaints seem to > be un-verifiable which has previously meant we've not taken any action > against them. I think we should take all these past complaints and > problems into account, make the assumption that there isn't a > continuous stream of smoke without an actual fire and stop accepting > postings from them in the future. OK. I just wanted some official word from the web team on this, since we're likely to get some backlash from them somewhere. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. www.pgexperts.com
On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 14:09 -0300, Guido Barosio wrote: > JD, thoughts are thoughts, appreciate your input. BUT, we need to take > an action on this matter. And that is what Josh is asking for, whereas > I also agree with him. > > BTW: What do you mean by "moderators should practice better discretion" ? I would deny any event/training that was being posted in such a manner as the complaint. (ALL CAPS etc, bad grammar etc...). Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
LOL, +1 gb.- On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Joshua D. Drake<jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 14:09 -0300, Guido Barosio wrote: >> JD, thoughts are thoughts, appreciate your input. BUT, we need to take >> an action on this matter. And that is what Josh is asking for, whereas >> I also agree with him. >> >> BTW: What do you mean by "moderators should practice better discretion" ? > > I would deny any event/training that was being posted in such a manner > as the complaint. (ALL CAPS etc, bad grammar etc...). > > Sincerely, > > Joshua D. Drake > > -- > PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org > Consulting, Development, Support, Training > 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ > The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997 > >
"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> writes:
> I would deny any event/training that was being posted in such a manner
> as the complaint. (ALL CAPS etc, bad grammar etc...).
Seems like what we want is a policy stating that postings are supposed
to be informational, not advertising, and written in a professional
manner.
regards, tom lane
Josh Berkus wrote: > All, Sorry to chime in late here..I don't check this list as often as some of the others. > > We're getting some abuse on the training event front, and I'd like to > pass a new policy: > > Frequency: no company may list more than three training events per > quarter. If the company has more training than that, they are > encouraged to post links to their own web page schedule. Okay. I think I proposed this in the past, and the response I got was that it was legitimate for a company to offer courses in many locations on many dates, so long as there was a reasonable chance that they would run the course. In fact, it was a result of that discussion that we started doing something similar (to be competitive more than anything else). Our result was 100% of the courses at our NC location running as advertised (we guarantee them to run anyways), and about 15% of our non-NC courses running as advertised. We've since (more or less, with an occasional exception where we see significant demand or are exploring a new market) discontinued that practice, since I didn't think it had the value we wanted. However, that being said, we offer far more than a single administration course (performance tuning, HA, PostGIS, Administration), and a policy of no more than 3 events per quarter seems restrictive. We might offer a HA course twice a year, a Admin course twice a quarter, a postgis course twice a year and a performance course twice a quarter. A three events per quarter rule might put us on the cusp of not being able to list events that we would almost always run. Furthermore, these are class that actually run - perhaps with only a couple of people in some cases - but they are being run.... > Content: Training events will include *one paragraph* of descriptive > content, describing in a factual way what the contents of the training > is. Hyperbole, competitive messaging, and offers of free gifts are > prohibited. This needs to be clarified a bit. Events are split into two parts, a "Summary" (where I see your rule applying) and "Details" (we use that to cite some references, post the course content, and additional details, cancellation policy, etc.). I think your noted policy WRT content makes sense for the summary, but not for the details. Also, I'm not sure I'm 100% clear on what "competitive messaging" is...is that posting links to customer references (for example, we link to a review written on Planet PostgreSQL for our Performance class), using words like "unlike our competitors", or listing pricing. Case in point is here: http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.872 http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.826 http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.867 My contention is that "Detail" is for that - details about the course.... > Currently CertFirst is spamming us with more than 20 training events > offering a free iPod and containing ALL CAPS and many > exclamations!!!!!! as well as about 2 pages of text each. Also, I think events that contain no direct relation to PostgreSQL should be disallowed. For example a Nagios course, which might monitor PostgreSQL - but works with lots of other things should not be allowed. Case in point would be an event like this one, which deals with open source cartography and MapServer, but seems to have no content related to PostgreSQL or PostGIS: http://www.postgresql.org/about/event.867 -- Chander Ganesan Open Technology Group, Inc. One Copley Parkway, Suite 210 Morrisville, NC 27560 919-463-0999/877-258-8987 http://www.otg-nc.com