Thread: Email issues unanswered
I have had two email issues in the past few weeks, with no replies. First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated to their first line. Second, why is the patches list showing a lowercase bracket tag all of a sudden? -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 16:25:51 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > I have had two email issues in the past few weeks, with no replies. > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > to their first line. Which is correct according to the RFCs ... let me check if there is a way of 'disabling the RFCs' for this, but Mj2 tends to try and be very RFC compliant by default ... > Second, why is the patches list showing a lowercase bracket tag all of a > sudden? All the lists do, and always have ... I just checked my digests folder, and all the lists show lower case ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFvms64QvfyHIvDvMRAq2uAKCVS5yQgnyRLcOemyhPMUnck18PHgCgljh5 IULE3r1Zo0GxbB7t82vPr2U= =Y7Hl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 16:25:51 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > I have had two email issues in the past few weeks, with no replies. > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > to their first line. Can you email an example of what you are seeing? I just went through one of the recent -hackers digests, and found at least one occurance where the subject span'd more then one line ... it may just be that mulberry 'shorts' the subject line so did an auto-wrapping on its own, so would like to see an example of what you are seeing ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFvmy74QvfyHIvDvMRAmyYAJ9+xaEZXc4Kkzsr9X8IDk7w6kd2EwCeLR2y KkzoJH0XmaF1e1ONr5PrUKE= =Ak8F -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:46:34PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > > to their first line. > > Which is correct according to the RFCs Well, that depends on what you mean by "multi-line". If what you mean is "has a CRLF embedded in it to begin with", then I think you're correct, because RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 says Each header field is logically a single line of characters comprising the field name, the colon, and the field body. _But_ if you mean "too long for the standard 78 characters per line", though, you're mistaken. Please see RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 for more. Andrew "RFC weenie" Sullivan -- Andrew Sullivan | ajs@crankycanuck.ca Information security isn't a technological problem. It's an economics problem. --Bruce Schneier
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 16:25:51 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> > wrote: > > > I have had two email issues in the past few weeks, with no replies. > > > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > > to their first line. > > Which is correct according to the RFCs ... let me check if there is a way of > 'disabling the RFCs' for this, but Mj2 tends to try and be very RFC compliant > by default ... Uh, Andrew Sullivan, Mr. RFC, says multi-line subjects are fine per RFC: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2006-12/msg00147.php > > Second, why is the patches list showing a lowercase bracket tag all of a > > sudden? > > All the lists do, and always have ... I just checked my digests folder, and all > the lists show lower case ... Huh? I am talking about the subject tag, not the actual email address. For example, here is "[HACKERS]" in the subject: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00534.php Here is patches uppercase "[PATCHES]": http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-patches/2007-01/msg00468.php and here is patches lowercase in the subject "[pgsql-patches]": http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2007-01/msg01514.php Sometimes it is uppercase, sometimes lower. I think the advocacy list has a similar problem. -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 16:25:51 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> > wrote: > > > I have had two email issues in the past few weeks, with no replies. > > > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > > to their first line. > > Can you email an example of what you are seeing? I just went through one of > the recent -hackers digests, and found at least one occurance where the subject > span'd more then one line ... it may just be that mulberry 'shorts' the subject > line so did an auto-wrapping on its own, so would like to see an example of > what you are seeing ... Sure, just had one an hour ago. Check out this thread and where I reply, the subject is shortened because my emailer sends it out as multi-line: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg01725.php It took us quite a while to figure it out. I think Alvaro found it. -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:46:34PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > > > to their first line. > > > > Which is correct according to the RFCs > > Well, that depends on what you mean by "multi-line". If what you > mean is "has a CRLF embedded in it to begin with", then I think > you're correct, because RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 says > > Each header field is logically a single line of characters > comprising the field name, the colon, and the field body. > > _But_ if you mean "too long for the standard 78 characters per line", > though, you're mistaken. Please see RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 for more. My long subject email going out looks like: From bruce Fri Jan 26 21:00:37 2007Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL branchesIn-Reply-To:<1169889147.3443.10.camel@laptop.gunduz.org>To: Devrim GUNDUZ <devrim@CommandPrompt.com>Date: Sat, 27Jan 2007 10:05:33 -0500 (EST)cc: Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org>, Bill Moran <wmoran@collaborativefusion.com>, pgsql-general@postgresql.orgX-Mailer:ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL123]MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitContent-Type:text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"Content-Length: 797 -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Bruce Momjian wrote: > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 05:46:34PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > First, I would a fix for the bug that multi-line subjects are truncated > > > > to their first line. > > > > > > Which is correct according to the RFCs > > > > Well, that depends on what you mean by "multi-line". If what you > > mean is "has a CRLF embedded in it to begin with", then I think > > you're correct, because RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 says > > > > Each header field is logically a single line of characters > > comprising the field name, the colon, and the field body. > > > > _But_ if you mean "too long for the standard 78 characters per line", > > though, you're mistaken. Please see RFC 2822 section 2.2.3 for more. > > My long subject email going out looks like: > > From bruce Fri Jan 26 21:00:37 2007 > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL > branches > In-Reply-To: <1169889147.3443.10.camel@laptop.gunduz.org> > To: Devrim GUNDUZ <devrim@CommandPrompt.com> > Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:05:33 -0500 (EST) > cc: Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org>, Bill Moran <wmoran@collaborativefusion.com>, pgsql-general@postgresql.org > X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL123] > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Length: 797 Oh, and if I bounce this to my gmail account, it looks fine. -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 17:53:05 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > Sure, just had one an hour ago. Check out this thread and where I > reply, the subject is shortened because my emailer sends it out as > multi-line: > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg01725.php > > It took us quite a while to figure it out. I think Alvaro found it. 'k, if that is your example, then the 'truncation' is being done somewhere else, as long subjects are getting through Majordomo2 just fine: <http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg00119.php> "Subject: Pure PostgreSQL unit tests - test and debug pgsql constraints and procedures/functions" The subject part is 87 characters long, so its not being wrapped at 80 characters ... and your sample is only 47 characters, which would be a *really* weird truncation point ... Back to the drawing board ... its not Majordomo2, and its not Mhonarc ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFvn/M4QvfyHIvDvMRAv67AJ9YlFUZH00CZNBHHmC6w0kvErB1ogCgirJ4 D0ax6kESxZyW/pnrYFJpEqA= =w0dy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 17:53:05 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> > wrote: > > > Sure, just had one an hour ago. Check out this thread and where I > > reply, the subject is shortened because my emailer sends it out as > > multi-line: > > > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg01725.php > > > > It took us quite a while to figure it out. I think Alvaro found it. > > 'k, if that is your example, then the 'truncation' is being done somewhere > else, as long subjects are getting through Majordomo2 just fine: > > <http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2007-01/msg00119.php> > > "Subject: Pure PostgreSQL unit tests - test and debug pgsql constraints and > procedures/functions" > > The subject part is 87 characters long, so its not being wrapped at 80 > characters ... and your sample is only 47 characters, which would be a *really* > weird truncation point ... > > Back to the drawing board ... its not Majordomo2, and its not Mhonarc ... Yea, the problem is that my mailer is wrapping the subjects >80 characters, but upstream somewhere the wrap lines are being removed --- only the first line is being kept. I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work. -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:11:38 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > My long subject email going out looks like: > > From bruce Fri Jan 26 21:00:37 2007 > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL > branches Looks like something has add a carriage return at the end of PostgreSQL, which breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that Andrew sent), it wouldn't have gone through (as per the valid long Subject that I just sent to you) ... You are talking about 'multi line' (against RFCs) vs 'long subjects that wrap' (not against RFCs) ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFvoEa4QvfyHIvDvMRArj8AJwMz1g5HHverBOKhDCJvfit2htVdQCcDrQx Crh1VulXUAfF0A9t6zw0VVI= =tTPx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:19:44 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > Yea, the problem is that my mailer is wrapping the subjects >80 > characters, but upstream somewhere the wrap lines are being removed --- > only the first line is being kept. > > I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work. Your mailer is not wrapping, it is adding a CRLF ... Majordomo treads: Subject: ...<CRLF> as a valid subject ... everything after the CRLF is considered a seperate (and, invalid) header so strips it from the message ... from the RFC quote that Andrew posted, this sounds to me to be perfect valid ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFvoID4QvfyHIvDvMRAmSAAJ9y4AJ8gSxWwriciaK3bP1bhStmfwCgv2dp oPL/EUSdt0Xi5NG8/5If8uM= =4aug -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:11:38 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
> wrote:
>
> > My long subject email going out looks like:
> >
> > From bruce Fri Jan 26 21:00:37 2007
> > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL
> > branches
>
> Looks like something has add a carriage return at the end of PostgreSQL, which
> breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that Andrew
Yes, my emaler does that, but see below on the RFC issue.
> sent), it wouldn't have gone through (as per the valid long Subject that I just
> sent to you) ...
>
> You are talking about 'multi line' (against RFCs) vs 'long subjects that wrap'
> (not against RFCs) ...
Right, I am talking about multi-line, and here is the RFC part Andrew
mentioned:
2.2.3. Long Header Fields
Each header field is logically a single line of characters comprising the field name, the colon, and the field body.
For convenience however, and to deal with the 998/78 character limitations per line, the field body portion of a
headerfield can be split into a multiple line representation; this is called "folding". The general rule is
that wherever this standard allows for folding white space (not simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted
beforeany WSP. For example, the header field:
Subject: This is a test
can be represented as:
Subject: This is a test
Note: Though structured field bodies are defined in such a way that folding can take place between many of the
lexicaltokens (and even within some of the lexical tokens), folding SHOULD be limited to placing the CRLF at
higher-levelsyntactic breaks. For instance, if a field body is defined as comma-separated values, it is recommended
thatfolding occur after the comma separating the structured items in preference to other places where the field could
befolded, even if it is allowed elsewhere.
The process of moving from this folded multiple-line representation of a header field to its single line
representationis called "unfolding". Unfolding is accomplished by simply removing any CRLF that is immediately
followedby WSP. Each header field should be treated in its unfolded form for further syntactic and semantic
evaluation.
It seems clear here that my emailer is fine and following the RFC.
-- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:19:44 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> > wrote: > > > > Yea, the problem is that my mailer is wrapping the subjects >80 > > characters, but upstream somewhere the wrap lines are being removed --- > > only the first line is being kept. > > > > I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work. > > Your mailer is not wrapping, it is adding a CRLF ... Majordomo treads: > > Subject: ...<CRLF> > > as a valid subject ... everything after the CRLF is considered a seperate (and, > invalid) header so strips it from the message ... from the RFC quote that > Andrew posted, this sounds to me to be perfect valid ... Nope, see email I just sent with the RFC section copied. -- Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Even while discussing this, I sent an emamil off to one of the Mj2 developers, and apparently they did make some changes from the past thread, that I didn't know of ... seems that Alvarro talked to them, but nobody let *me* know to upgrade our Mj2 :( Working on that now ... we'll see if that fixes it ... will post a follow up once its been upgraded ... - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:36:55 -0500 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> >> - --On Monday, January 29, 2007 18:11:38 -0500 Bruce Momjian >> <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: >> >> > My long subject email going out looks like: >> > >> > From bruce Fri Jan 26 21:00:37 2007 >> > Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Predicted lifespan of different PostgreSQL >> > branches >> >> Looks like something has add a carriage return at the end of PostgreSQL, >> which breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that >> Andrew > > Yes, my emaler does that, but see below on the RFC issue. > >> sent), it wouldn't have gone through (as per the valid long Subject that I >> just sent to you) ... >> >> You are talking about 'multi line' (against RFCs) vs 'long subjects that >> wrap' (not against RFCs) ... > > Right, I am talking about multi-line, and here is the RFC part Andrew > mentioned: > > 2.2.3. Long Header Fields > > Each header field is logically a single line of characters comprising > the field name, the colon, and the field body. For convenience > however, and to deal with the 998/78 character limitations per line, > the field body portion of a header field can be split into a multiple > line representation; this is called "folding". The general rule is > > that wherever this standard allows for folding white space (not > simply WSP characters), a CRLF may be inserted before any WSP. For > example, the header field: > > Subject: This is a test > > can be represented as: > > Subject: This > is a test > > Note: Though structured field bodies are defined in such a way that > folding can take place between many of the lexical tokens (and even > within some of the lexical tokens), folding SHOULD be limited to > placing the CRLF at higher-level syntactic breaks. For instance, if > a field body is defined as comma-separated values, it is recommended > that folding occur after the comma separating the structured items in > preference to other places where the field could be folded, even if > it is allowed elsewhere. > > The process of moving from this folded multiple-line representation > of a header field to its single line representation is called > "unfolding". Unfolding is accomplished by simply removing any CRLF > that is immediately followed by WSP. Each header field should be > treated in its unfolded form for further syntactic and semantic > evaluation. > > It seems clear here that my emailer is fine and following the RFC. > > -- > Bruce Momjian bruce@momjian.us > EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com > > + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFvqg24QvfyHIvDvMRAgdSAJ9idCefqGq05fmPB7ousOZR5LUJ2wCff6cJ BUALcDAzSayAzBqXktzcR6k= =1Z4W -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 06:36:55PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Looks like something has add a carriage return at the end of PostgreSQL, which > > breaks the RFC ... if it was all one line (as per the RFC quote that Andrew > > Yes, my emaler does that, but see below on the RFC issue. So long as it leaves the white space after the CRLF, it's legit. If there is no white space following the CRLF, then it'll break. In other words, this Hereis asample will work. But this Here is a broken whitespace follows sample will not. I always thought I shoulda become a lawyer. Now we have proof :-/ Andrew "RFC weenie" Sullivan -- Andrew Sullivan | ajs@crankycanuck.ca If they don't do anything, we don't need their acronym. --Josh Hamilton, on the US FEMA
On Mon, Jan 29, 2007 at 06:19:44PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Yea, the problem is that my mailer is wrapping the subjects >80 > characters, Well, they _should_ be wrapped at 78 characters. 2822 is pretty clear that the way to wrap that is by inserting a single CRLF, and the way to collapse it back is to remove every CRLF followed by whitespace. (This is the reason that putting your own CRLF in the subject line is not allowed; I know of 0 MUAs that allow you to put one in.) > > I can change mail mailer, but Andrew says it should work. My bet is that it won't make any difference, too. A -- Andrew Sullivan | ajs@crankycanuck.ca "The year's penultimate month" is not in truth a good way of saying November. --H.W. Fowler