Thread: Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and if they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72103/wo/oC2xGlPM9M2i3UsLG0f1PaalTlE/0.0.9.1.0.6.13.0.3.1.3.0.7.12.1.1.0 Robert Treat -- Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert, > Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and if > they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you > know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives and a PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not server-grade) hardware. I can't recommend the XServe as a database platform. SCSI still makes a difference for databases, more because of the controllers than anything else. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes: > Robert, > >> Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and if >> they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you >> know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA > \> Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives > and a PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not > server-grade) hardware. I can't recommend the XServe as a database > platform. SCSI still makes a difference for databases, more because > of the controllers than anything else. The XServe RAID is fibre-channel. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863
Guys, > the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel I stand corrected. That should help things some; it makes it more of a small tradeoff between performance and storage size for the drives. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
we checked a XServe/XRaid system some months ago and especially the relation price/space/performance was OK compared to a HP/Intel maschine. Tomorrow I'll try to find the performance charts on my harddisc and post the links to the list. You get a huge amount of raid-space for a good price. We plan to get one to do our web-statistics there with about 150 MegaPageImpressions a month. Ralf Schramm Am 25.08.2004 um 23:09 schrieb Robert Treat: > Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and > if > they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you > know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA > > http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72103/ > wo/oC2xGlPM9M2i3UsLG0f1PaalTlE/0.0.9.1.0.6.13.0.3.1.3.0.7.12.1.1.0 > > > Robert Treat > -- > Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel Here some infos: http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/architecture.html http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/fibre_channel.html http://www.apple.com/xserve/architecture.html Ralf Schramm Am 25.08.2004 um 23:22 schrieb Josh Berkus: > Robert, > >> Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and >> if >> they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you >> know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA > > Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives > and a > PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not server-grade) > hardware. > I can't recommend the XServe as a database platform. SCSI still makes > a > difference for databases, more because of the controllers than > anything else. > > -- > Josh Berkus > Aglio Database Solutions > San Francisco
Just starting to work with one now, so I'll let people know what I find. There has been some talk that the XServe RAID seems more optimized for streaming applications rather than heavy random-access type applications, which really wouldn't surprise me given where they probably expect to sell most of them (music/film). They gave us a very good price break, as we are in an industry they wanted exposure in (financial services). If you want a pile of storage at a good price point, its certainly worth considering. The unit itself is built very well, and the admin tools are very good (OS X only, though). It and the cards that come in the XServes use copper SFP cables/connections, which is good or bad depending upon you're point of view. The switch Apple sells off of their web site is a Vixel (recently bought by Emulex). I have XServes hooked up at the moment, which work fine. My production DB machine is a slackware box, which has tested out fine in initial tests with a QLogic HBA and the stock in-kernel drivers. They're also 'certified' to work with Emulex cards, but IIRC Emulex doesn't do copper. Emulex did open-source their driver code last year (right after I had to change an client's install from my beloved Slack to RHAS because Emulex only had version-specific drivers....). More as it happens. On Aug 25, 2004, at 6:52 PM, Doug McNaught wrote: > Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes: > >> Robert, >> >>> Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server >>> and if >>> they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you >>> know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA >> > \> Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives >> and a PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not >> server-grade) hardware. I can't recommend the XServe as a database >> platform. SCSI still makes a difference for databases, more because >> of the controllers than anything else. > > The XServe RAID is fibre-channel. > > -Doug > -- > Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. > --T. J. Jackson, 1863 > > > ---------------------------(end of > broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to > majordomo@postgresql.org > -------------------- Andrew Rawnsley President The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd. (740) 587-0114 www.ravensfield.com
On Aug 26, 2004, at 14:07, Andrew Rawnsley wrote: > The unit itself is built very well, and the admin tools are very good > (OS X only, though). It and the The admin tools are supposed to work cross platform. From Apples website: "This Java-based application provides an intuitive interface for creating protected storage volumes, managing preferences and monitoring storage hardware from any virtually any networked computer over TCP/IP. That means you don’t have to use a Mac to administer your deployment, though, we’d like you to, of course." http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/management.html Regards, - Tore.
Oops. My bad. They must really want to sell those things if they're making them completely platform independent... On Aug 26, 2004, at 11:13 AM, Tore Halset wrote: > On Aug 26, 2004, at 14:07, Andrew Rawnsley wrote: > >> The unit itself is built very well, and the admin tools are very good >> (OS X only, though). It and the > > The admin tools are supposed to work cross platform. From Apples > website: "This Java-based application provides an intuitive interface > for creating protected storage volumes, managing preferences and > monitoring storage hardware from any virtually any networked computer > over TCP/IP. That means you don’t have to use a Mac to administer your > deployment, though, we’d like you to, of course." > > http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/management.html > > Regards, > - Tore. > > ---------------------------(end of > broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to > majordomo@postgresql.org > -------------------- Andrew Rawnsley President The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd. (740) 587-0114 www.ravensfield.com
Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus for each drive.
What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually performed.
Josh Berkus wrote:
What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually performed.
Josh Berkus wrote:
Guys,the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannelI stand corrected. That should help things some; it makes it more of a small tradeoff between performance and storage size for the drives.
-- Kevin Barnard Speed Fulfillment and Call Center kbarnard@speedfc.com 214-258-0120
Kevin Barnard <kbarnard@speedfc.com> writes:
> Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses
> FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid
> controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a
> FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus
> for each drive.
> What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync
> problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually
> performed.
Good point.
(a) The FC<->ATA unit hopefully has a battery-backed cache, which
would make the whole thing more robust against power loss.
(b) Since Apple is the vendor for the drive units, they can buy ATA
drives that don't lie about cache flushes. Whether they do or not
is definitely a question. ;)
-Doug
--
Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees.
--T. J. Jackson, 1863
Doug McNaught wrote: >Kevin Barnard <kbarnard@speedfc.com> writes: > > > >> Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses >> FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid >> controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a >> FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus >> for each drive. >> What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync >> problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually >> performed. >> >> > >Good point. > >(a) The FC<->ATA unit hopefully has a battery-backed cache, which > would make the whole thing more robust against power loss. >(b) Since Apple is the vendor for the drive units, they can buy ATA > drives that don't lie about cache flushes. Whether they do or not > is definitely a question. ;) > > FYI: http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/pdf/tn1040.pdf a tech note on write cache flushing. A bit dated now, but perhaps some other tech note from Apple has more recent information. -- Alan
On Aug 26, 2004, at 3:54 PM, Doug McNaught wrote: > Kevin Barnard <kbarnard@speedfc.com> writes: > >> Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses >> FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid >> controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a >> FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA >> bus >> for each drive. >> What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync >> problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually >> performed. > > Good point. > > (a) The FC<->ATA unit hopefully has a battery-backed cache, which > would make the whole thing more robust against power loss. Each controller is battery backed (pretty beefy batteries too). Actually, they are optional, but if you spend the money for the unit and leave off the battery you should have your head examined. > (b) Since Apple is the vendor for the drive units, they can buy ATA > drives that don't lie about cache flushes. Whether they do or not > is definitely a question. ;) Given what they charge for them I would like to think so...but who knows... The ones in mine are from Hitachi, model #HDS722525VLAT80. > > -Doug > -- > Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. > --T. J. Jackson, 1863 > > > ---------------------------(end of > broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to > majordomo@postgresql.org > -------------------- Andrew Rawnsley President The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd. (740) 587-0114 www.ravensfield.com
>>>>> "JB" == Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes: JB> Guys, >> the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel JB> I stand corrected. That should help things some; it makes it more JB> of a small tradeoff between performance and storage size for the JB> drives. it is fibre channel to the host. the internals are still IDE drives with possibly multiple controllers inside the enclosure. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D. Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: khera@kciLink.com Rockville, MD +1-301-869-4449 x806 AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/