Thread: Moving Pivotal's Greenplum work upstream
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Courier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><divid="yui_3_16_0_1_1426113009600_23013">Hi all,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426113009600_23014">Therehas been some press regarding Pivotal's intent to release Greenplum source aspart of an Open Development Platform (along with some of their Hadoop projects). Can anyone speak on whether any of Greenplummight find its way upstream? For example, if(!) the work is being released under an appropriate license, are peopleat Pivotal planning to push patches for the parallel architecture and associated query planner upstream?<br /></div><br/><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426113009600_23080">Thanks,</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1426113009600_23124">Ewan<br /></div></div>
On 03/12/2015 03:24 PM, Ewan Higgs wrote: > Hi all, > There has been some press regarding Pivotal's intent to release > Greenplum source as part of an Open Development Platform (along with > some of their Hadoop projects). Can anyone speak on whether any of > Greenplum might find its way upstream? For example, if(!) the work is > being released under an appropriate license, are people at Pivotal > planning to push patches for the parallel architecture and associated > query planner upstream? At this point, we have no idea. We'll know better when the code is actually available. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
On 13 March 2015 at 06:24, Ewan Higgs <ewan_higgs@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Greenplum appears from what's visible on the outside to make heavy modifications across a large part of the codebase, doing so with little concern about removing support for existing features, breaking other use cases, etc. So it does what it's meant to do well, but you can't necessarily expect to drop it in place of PostgreSQL and have everything just work.
It's a valid approach, but it's one that means it's unlikely to be practical to just cherry-pick a few features. There's sure to be a lot of divergence between the codebases, and no doubt Greenplum will have implemented infrastructure that overlaps with or duplicates things since added in newer PostgreSQL releases - dynamic shmem, bgworkers, etc. Even if it were feasible to pull in their features with the underlying infrastructure it'd create a significant maintenance burden. So I expect there'd need to be work done to move things over to use PostgreSQL features where they exist.
Hi all,There has been some press regarding Pivotal's intent to release Greenplum source as part of an Open Development Platform (along with some of their Hadoop projects). Can anyone speak on whether any of Greenplum might find its way upstream? For example, if(!) the work is being released under an appropriate license, are people at Pivotal planning to push patches for the parallel architecture and associated query planner upstream?
Greenplum appears from what's visible on the outside to make heavy modifications across a large part of the codebase, doing so with little concern about removing support for existing features, breaking other use cases, etc. So it does what it's meant to do well, but you can't necessarily expect to drop it in place of PostgreSQL and have everything just work.
My understanding is that they've written pretty much a new planner/executor for plannable statements, retaining PostgreSQL's parser, protocol code, utility statement handling, etc. But I'm finding it hard to find much hard detail on the system's innards.
It's a valid approach, but it's one that means it's unlikely to be practical to just cherry-pick a few features. There's sure to be a lot of divergence between the codebases, and no doubt Greenplum will have implemented infrastructure that overlaps with or duplicates things since added in newer PostgreSQL releases - dynamic shmem, bgworkers, etc. Even if it were feasible to pull in their features with the underlying infrastructure it'd create a significant maintenance burden. So I expect there'd need to be work done to move things over to use PostgreSQL features where they exist.
Then there's the fact that Greenplum is based on a heavily modified PostgreSQL 8.2. So even if desirable features were simple standalone patches against 8.2 (which they won't be) there'd be a lot of work getting them forward ported to 9.6.
I think it's more realistic that Greenplum's code would serve as an interesting example of how something can be done, and maybe if the license permits parts can be extracted and adapted where it takes less time than rewriting. I wouldn't pin my hopes on seeing a big influx of Greenplum code.
I'd love to hear from someone at Pivotal, though, as the above is somewhere between educated guesswork and complete hand-waving.
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On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 02:09:34PM +0800, Craig Ringer wrote: > It's a valid approach, but it's one that means it's unlikely to be practical to > just cherry-pick a few features. There's sure to be a lot of divergence between > the codebases, and no doubt Greenplum will have implemented infrastructure that > overlaps with or duplicates things since added in newer PostgreSQL releases - > dynamic shmem, bgworkers, etc. Even if it were feasible to pull in their > features with the underlying infrastructure it'd create a significant > maintenance burden. So I expect there'd need to be work done to move things > over to use PostgreSQL features where they exist. I think we would need to create a team to learn the Greenplum code and move over what is reasonable. My guess is there is no desire in our community to totally merge or maintain the Greenplum code --- of course, that is just a guess. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + Everyone has their own god. +
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > I think we would need to create a team to learn the Greenplum code and > move over what is reasonable. My guess is there is no desire in our > community to totally merge or maintain the Greenplum code --- of course, > that is just a guess. Let's wait until they actually release the code. I see no reason to assume anything about it one way or the other just yet. -- Peter Geoghegan
Has anything actually happened on the Greenplum release at this point? All I can find are the same old press releases. -- Craig Ringer http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services
On 06/14/2015 11:44 PM, Craig Ringer wrote: > Has anything actually happened on the Greenplum release at this point? > > All I can find are the same old press releases. > Nothing has happened. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com