Thread: SAP-DB
Hi guys, > > I've used the open source SAPDB and the performance is pretty damned > impressive. However, 'open source' in application to it is somewhat > deceptive, since you have to make it with SAP's proprietary build > tools/environment. > > In my opinion, however, it would be worth closely auditing SAP DB to see > what postgres can learn. I downloaded it. The directories are two characters in length, the files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal. Need I say more. :-) I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing statement by Bruce. Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters in the directory name? By the languages used? Have you considered that the development tools may be abstracting out the directory names in their development environment? Someone else dissed this release because you need their development tools. Well, guess what big boys, the development tools are being released open source, too. And SAP has a history of giving you sources (not fiche or whatever) of their licensed technology so this is a fairly easy step for them. Not by the fact that SAP is a monster company, with a monster customer base, with a DB engine hardly used over here but actually quite popular in Germany? Quite popular in exactly the kind of enterprise environments that PG has yet to crack and, if you dismiss this offering with silly hand-waving, may never crack? Have you ever heard of Adabas? If you don't believe that SAP and SAP-DB are real, go talk to your fellow Great Bridge employee Jan Wieck. OK, I'll unsubscribe now ... <italic>I'm </italic>still a fan of PG, but not stupid enough to dismiss a robust, industrial-strength RDMBS system based on naive and uneducated criticism. PG has a lot to offer, and the upscale is still amazingly positive judging by the pace of development over the past two years. This is hardly a basis for hand-waving SAP DB into MySQL-land, however. I like PG, I will continue to personally use PG, and I will support SAP DB along with Oracle and PG with OpenACS 4.x. And I would expect most of my clients using that toolkit to use Oracle, with SAP DB coming in second, and PG third ... I'm not trying to demotivate or discourage the PG crowd. However, when you're in a competitive battle the best prescription for getting your bell run is to taunt and tease competitors who actually are in better shape than you. And ... SAP DB is, in many ways important to the enterprise organization. They may have an inferior page-locking concurrency scheme, I need to check on this, but in many enterprise-level commercial environments this isn't such a big deal. Since your (Bruce's) hopes for a wealthy future depends on GB IPO'ing which will only come with significant penetration of the enterprise commercial environment, I humbly suggest you don't write them off quite so quickly. SAP is, after all, a very successful company. - Don Baccus, Portland OR <<dhogaza@pacifier.com> Nature photos, on-line guides, Pacific Northwest Rare Bird Alert Service and other goodies at http://donb.photo.net.
On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, Don Baccus wrote: > I humbly suggest you don't write them off quite so quickly. > > SAP is, after all, a very successful company. So is Microsoft. I got the between the lines part of Bruce's post and agree with him. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | winter@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL | ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | For Great Justice! | ISO8802.5 4ever |
Don Baccus wrote: > > Hi guys, > > > > I've used the open source SAPDB and the performance is pretty damned > > impressive. However, 'open source' in application to it is somewhat > > deceptive, since you have to make it with SAP's proprietary build > > tools/environment. > > > > In my opinion, however, it would be worth closely auditing SAP DB to see > > what postgres can learn. > > I downloaded it. The directories are two characters in length, the > files are numbers, and it is a mixture of C++, Python, and Pascal. Need > I say more. :-) > > I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing > statement by Bruce. > > Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters > in the directory name? > > By the languages used? [Snip] My guess is that Bruce was implying that the code was obfuscated. It is a common trick for closed source to be "open" but not really. I don't think it was any sort of technology snobbery. Far be it for me to suggest an explanation to the words of others, that is just how I read it. -- I'm not offering myself as an example; every life evolves by its own laws. ------------------------ http://www.mohawksoft.com
> > I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing > > statement by Bruce. > > > > Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters > > in the directory name? > > > > By the languages used? > > [Snip] > > My guess is that Bruce was implying that the code was obfuscated. It is a > common trick for closed source to be "open" but not really. > > I don't think it was any sort of technology snobbery. Far be it for me to > suggest an explanation to the words of others, that is just how I read it. I don't think they intentionally confused the code. The real problem I see in that it was very hard for me to find anything in the code. I would be interested to see if others can find stuff. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
> Have you considered that the development tools may > > be abstracting out the directory names in their development > environment? I never considered this, but it makes sense. I didn't try the development tools and went right to the code. I did find a web site that described the two-letter directory names and their meanings so I thought that was all there was. Seems their development tools make the code more understandable. Has anyone tried it? > I humbly suggest you don't write them off quite so quickly. I never wrote them off. I just couldn't figure any of it out. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
* Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> [010429 10:44] wrote: > > > I swore I'd never post to the hackers list again, but this is an amazing > > > statement by Bruce. > > > > > > Boy, the robustness of the software is determined by the number of characters > > > in the directory name? > > > > > > By the languages used? > > > > [Snip] > > > > My guess is that Bruce was implying that the code was obfuscated. It is a > > common trick for closed source to be "open" but not really. > > > > I don't think it was any sort of technology snobbery. Far be it for me to > > suggest an explanation to the words of others, that is just how I read it. > > I don't think they intentionally confused the code. > > The real problem I see in that it was very hard for me to find anything > in the code. I would be interested to see if others can find stuff. I think this is general problem in a lot of projects, you open up foo.c and say... "what the heck is this..." after a few hours of studying the source you finally figure out is something that does miniscule part X of massive part Y and by then you're too engrossed to write a little banner for the file or dir explaining what it's for and incorrectly assume that even if you did, it wouldn't help that user unless he went through the same painful steps that you did. Been there, done that.. er, actually, still there, mostly still doing that. :) -- -Alfred Perlstein - [alfred@freebsd.org] http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~slumos/on-netbsd.html