Thread: Raising funds for PostgreSQL
I talked to Marc several months ago about the possibility of setting up a system for raising money from commercial users of PostgreSQL kind of like the "Street Performer Protocol" explained at: http://www.counterpane.com/street_performer.html It would basically allow people to view the todo list and to offer a bid on various features and enhancements. At the same time, developers (you guys) could bid on doing the actual work. When the bid pool on a certain enhancement got large enough to fund a work bid, the enhancement could be done and the developer could actually get paid for his work. As a commercial user of PostgreSQL, I would be interested in throwing a certain number of $$ at various problems/features of the software. If others feel the same way, maybe we could accelerate the development process and make it more fun for the people doing the actual work. Is anyone interested in this kind of thing? Or are financial interests not really the objective for most of the developers?
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> As a commercial user of PostgreSQL, I would be interested in throwing a > certain number of $$ at various problems/features of the software. If > others feel the same way, maybe we could accelerate the development > process and make it more fun for the people doing the actual work. > > Is anyone interested in this kind of thing? Or are financial interests > not really the objective for most of the developers? Interesting idea. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
While I have no doubt such an idea for $$ for open source code development would fly, my initial reaction would be opposed to it because I think the overall effect would be to pollute the long-term purity of the open source pgsql development effort by incenting short-sighted development to earn cash. Quality controls can never keep up. Here's a bit more on my perspective... [long-winded self-important soapboxing hilosphical flame suit on] I am a software developer who has benefitted tremendously from open source software. Linux, Apache, Perl, SSL, PostgreSQL, GIMP...hundreds if not thousands of pieces of open-source software. I have come to realize this at a very gut level. We're talking about many, many years (hundreds? thousands?) of labor via open source. Though not in cash, I have been "paid" in value many times over via open source software. As a result of a clear understanding that I along with everyone else will ultimately benefit, I have a very personal and growing commitment to give back to the open source movement. I do that by spending some of my personal time helping others use these tools via forums, newsgroups, etc., by providing feedback to developers, by providing bug fixes/patches/enhancements to open source software where I can, and by generating open source software for others. What strikes me about open source development is that it is some of the cleanest, purest development around. By that, I mean only that there is far less of the sense of "doing the absolute minimum to get the money" that is so prevalent in private for-profit corporations who will live or die by next quarter's results and the short-term assessment of value-add by shareholders. If you hang around these open source development forums for very long and know much about how software design decisions often get made in the corporate software world, you will notice a powerful design slant toward longer-term vision as opposed to the tyranny of the urgent that usually presides in the corporate environment. While I love the free market and see a lot of validity to the free market theory behind the market-driven corporate software development, I also think it is quite rare that software developed under such circumstances has such benefit to the world at large while also having the exponential opportunities to grow and spread by the worldwide efforts of others. MS Excel is, IMO, probably the most productive piece of software in existence. But it will always be constrained by the fortunes of Microsoft or the holder of the intellectual property rights. Open source, on the other hand, has the potential to propagate indefinitely to benefit people everywhere indefinitely, because it is free to grow. Both approaches seem valdi/important, and I think there is a needed balance between proprietary nature of the private sector, and the open source movement. It is a fine balance, and it is none too clear on how to best draw it. It is a very complex issue with many sides. Personally, I think it's quite related to many of the great debates of all time, such as capitalism vs socialism vs communism, even the inherent nature of human kind. But I digress. :) But what is clear to me is that there is a lot of open source decision making going on which is in the public's best interest. I don't have much confidence that this would remain so if the proposal below played out. [flame suit off] Cheers. Ed Kyle Bateman wrote: > I talked to Marc several months ago about the possibility of setting up > a system for raising money from commercial users of PostgreSQL kind of > like the "Street Performer Protocol" explained at: > > http://www.counterpane.com/street_performer.html > > It would basically allow people to view the todo list and to offer a bid > on various features and enhancements. At the same time, developers (you > guys) could bid on doing the actual work. When the bid pool on a > certain enhancement got large enough to fund a work bid, the enhancement > could be done and the developer could actually get paid for his work. > > As a commercial user of PostgreSQL, I would be interested in throwing a > certain number of $$ at various problems/features of the software. If > others feel the same way, maybe we could accelerate the development > process and make it more fun for the people doing the actual work. > > Is anyone interested in this kind of thing? Or are financial interests > not really the objective for most of the developers?
> While I have no doubt such an idea for $$ for open source code development > would fly, my initial reaction would be opposed to it because I think the > overall effect would be to pollute the long-term purity of the open source > pgsql development effort by incenting short-sighted development to earn > cash. Quality controls can never keep up. Here's a bit more on my > perspective... My assumption is that the bids are open only to proven PostgreSQL developers, and that the quality of the work must meet the same standards we use for all our patches. All our patches are peer-reviewed. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania19026
hi.. > While I have no doubt such an idea for $$ for open source code development > would fly, my initial reaction would be opposed to it because I think the > overall effect would be to pollute the long-term purity of the open source > pgsql development effort by incenting short-sighted development to earn > cash. Quality controls can never keep up. Here's a bit more on my > perspective... <SNIP> > But what is clear to me is that there is a lot of open source decision > making going on which is in the public's best interest. I don't have much > confidence that this would remain so if the proposal below played out. the solution to this "problem" is probably rediculously obvious, but here goes anyways: only items that are put on the to-do list by the developers can be bid on. in other words, its stuff we'd get around to anyways... the $ incentive would merely motivate us to get to it sooner... hell, you could even put time/quality conditions on it... e.g. feature Y cannot be commenced until feature X is completed (and if feature X is boring and dull, perhaps it will sit for a long time undone, unless there are other incentives (read: $) and therefore prelong the absence of much desired and sexy feature Y). of course, before anyone gets paid, it has to be accepted into the mainstream package. how's that? the only issue i'd see is that the current licensing scheme provides little protection to the financial donors' investment (e.g. they could be financing someone else's commercial development). but that's their problem... -- Aaron J. Seigo Sys Admin
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Kyle Bateman wrote: > I talked to Marc several months ago about the possibility of setting up > a system for raising money from commercial users of PostgreSQL kind of > like the "Street Performer Protocol" explained at: > > http://www.counterpane.com/street_performer.html > > It would basically allow people to view the todo list and to offer a bid > on various features and enhancements. At the same time, developers (you > guys) could bid on doing the actual work. When the bid pool on a > certain enhancement got large enough to fund a work bid, the enhancement > could be done and the developer could actually get paid for his work. > > As a commercial user of PostgreSQL, I would be interested in throwing a > certain number of $$ at various problems/features of the software. If > others feel the same way, maybe we could accelerate the development > process and make it more fun for the people doing the actual work. > > Is anyone interested in this kind of thing? Or are financial interests > not really the objective for most of the developers? Ummm...read point 2 at: http://www.pgsql.com/mission.html We should probably create a seperate, more visible link, but see the Contribute item at: http://www.pgsql.com/products.html And, we even "advertise" the contributors: http://www.pgsql.com/contributors.html And note...this has all be here for months... Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > While I have no doubt such an idea for $$ for open source code development
> > would fly, my initial reaction would be opposed to it because I think the
> > overall effect would be to pollute the long-term purity of the open source
> > pgsql development effort by incenting short-sighted development to earn
> > cash. Quality controls can never keep up. Here's a bit more on my
> > perspective...
>
> My assumption is that the bids are open only to proven PostgreSQL
> developers, and that the quality of the work must meet the same
> standards we use for all our patches. All our patches are
> peer-reviewed.
Actually, this is what PostgreSQL, Inc was formed for many months
back...there was, at one time, a URL on our page, and an email message
sent out by myself, explaining this whole "contribute toward
features" aspect of things, but, going through www.pgsql.com, it appears
to have been trim'd out at some point :(
Will go through my old mailboxes and see if I can find this again, but the
gist of the concept was that we have a contributions section on our web
page, which is currently a part of the products page...if you click on it,
the order for you get presented includes a list of those features where
you can contribute towards having that feature added...
The features that are listed right now are short, but if something isn't
listed, email us and we'll add it to the list...
The features listed has to be something on the TODO list...if not, it has
to be proposed to the -hackers list and added to the TODO list.
I'm searching through my old email rigth now to try and find the original
message on this, but this has both been discussed already *and*
implemented...
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
On 05-Dec-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > Ummm...read point 2 at: http://www.pgsql.com/mission.html > > We should probably create a seperate, more visible link, but see the > Contribute item at: > > http://www.pgsql.com/products.html > > And, we even "advertise" the contributors: > > http://www.pgsql.com/contributors.html > > And note...this has all be here for months... Perhaps I should add something under the "Helping Us" link on the developer's website? Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seenhttp://www.pop4.net? Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > On 05-Dec-99 The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > Ummm...read point 2 at: http://www.pgsql.com/mission.html > > > > We should probably create a seperate, more visible link, but see the > > Contribute item at: > > > > http://www.pgsql.com/products.html > > > > And, we even "advertise" the contributors: > > > > http://www.pgsql.com/contributors.html > > > > And note...this has all be here for months... > > Perhaps I should add something under the "Helping Us" link on the > developer's website? that sounds good...Jeff and I are going to re-work the contribute stuff, since its pretty hidden right now :( will announce something this week on it... Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
Interesting article relevant to this thread... http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/newss/1316/1/ SourceXchange Goes Live Hewlett-Packard Among Initial Users of the New Service Kevin Reichard "Collab.Net announced today that it has finished its beta-test phase and gone into production with its first service, sourceXchange, a marketplace where open-source developers match their expertise to committed buyers with well-defined, financially backed open-source projects."