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Thread: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
"Quiroga, Damian"
Date:

Hi,

 

In case someone knows…

 

Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to store the database passwords at disk?

If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?

 

Thanks,

 

Damian

Re: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
John R Pierce
Date:
On 10/14/2015 1:31 PM, Quiroga, Damian wrote:

 

Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to store the database passwords at disk?

If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?

 


if you can read the password database, you already have superuser access to the full database.... so what threat does a stronger hash address?

if you need stronger security, don't use passwords, use ssl certificates, or LDAP, or something.

-- 
john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz

Re: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On 10/14/2015 01:31 PM, Quiroga, Damian wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In case someone knows…
>
> Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to
> store the database passwords at disk?

No.

>
> If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?

Not currently although it has been mentioned. However, you can use PAM
or any number of other auth mechanisms to achieve the desired result.

JD

>
> Thanks,
>
> Damian
>


--
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PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development.
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JD would say this..." Stop and shut your mouth. It's going to be bad.

Re: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
Jeff Janes
Date:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:41 PM, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:
On 10/14/2015 1:31 PM, Quiroga, Damian wrote:

 

Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to store the database passwords at disk?

If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?


There are proposals to do so, the most advanced one I know of is with SCRAM.  But I don't think any of them have turned into actual plans yet.  But you are not restricted to PostgreSQL's built in password authentication methods, you can use its options for PAM, LDAP, RADIUS, GSSAPI, or SSPI, in which case it doesn't store passwords at all but delegates that to someone else.

 if you can read the password database, you already have superuser access to the full database

Unless you've captured a backup tape, or scraped some bits off a not-quite-degaussed-enough discarded hard drive,or any number of other things that can get you an offline copy of some (or all) of the data, but doesn't give you live access to the running database (until you hack the passwords)

Cheers,

Jeff

Re: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
"Quiroga, Damian"
Date:

Excellent answers. Thanks everyone.

 

From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Janes
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 7:19 PM
To: John R Pierce
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

 

On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:41 PM, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:

On 10/14/2015 1:31 PM, Quiroga, Damian wrote:

 

Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to store the database passwords at disk?

If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?

 

There are proposals to do so, the most advanced one I know of is with SCRAM.  But I don't think any of them have turned into actual plans yet.  But you are not restricted to PostgreSQL's built in password authentication methods, you can use its options for PAM, LDAP, RADIUS, GSSAPI, or SSPI, in which case it doesn't store passwords at all but delegates that to someone else.

 

if you can read the password database, you already have superuser access to the full database

 

Unless you've captured a backup tape, or scraped some bits off a not-quite-degaussed-enough discarded hard drive,or any number of other things that can get you an offline copy of some (or all) of the data, but doesn't give you live access to the running database (until you hack the passwords)

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

Re: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
Michael Paquier
Date:
On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Jeff Janes <jeff.janes@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:41 PM, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/14/2015 1:31 PM, Quiroga, Damian wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to
>> store the database passwords at disk?
>>
>> If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?
> There are proposals to do so, the most advanced one I know of is with SCRAM.
> But I don't think any of them have turned into actual plans yet.

I would not be so sure, I heard of a patch regarding that for 9.6:
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/6/320/
--
Michael

Re: Not storing MD5 hashed passwords

From
Jeff Janes
Date:
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 5:49 PM, Michael Paquier <michael.paquier@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 15, 2015 at 7:19 AM, Jeff Janes <jeff.janes@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 1:41 PM, John R Pierce <pierce@hogranch.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 10/14/2015 1:31 PM, Quiroga, Damian wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Does postgres support other (stronger) hashing algorithms than MD5 to
>> store the database passwords at disk?
>>
>> If not, is there any plan to move away from MD5?
> There are proposals to do so, the most advanced one I know of is with SCRAM.
> But I don't think any of them have turned into actual plans yet.

I would not be so sure, I heard of a patch regarding that for 9.6:
https://commitfest.postgresql.org/6/320/


Right, that is the proposal I was thinking of.  I didn't think it had enough community consensus yet on that specific design to promote it to a "plan", though, rather than a proposal.  I feel a bit guilty about not having done more to review it, but it is a pretty intimidating thing to review for someone not already an expert in the field.

Cheers,

Jeff