Thread: A good client

Dear friends,

i've been using postgresql quiet some time now,
but i don't find any really good clients for "dummies" to this database.
When i look at pgadmin:
an anoying feature: it closes when u do something illegal, instead of
saying: u don't have the rights to do this.
When i look at phpgpadmin (phpmyadmin is much better from a usability
point of view),
why wasn't this layout/structure followed, or at least a better one.

To me the best client is:  psql ,
but i makes it kind of difficult to convince the "dummies" from using
access and/or mysql

suggestions to good clients?

tnx,

On 18 Oct 2005 at 15:41, Wim Bertels wrote:

> When i look at pgadmin: an anoying feature: it closes when u do
> something illegal, instead of saying: u don't have the rights to do
> this.

You must be using an old version - pgAmin used to do that at one
time, and indeed it was VERY annoying, but that was ages ago. The
current version is pgAdmin III 1.2.2, and a newer version is in beta.

> suggestions to good clients?

Others on the lists have used Access, though I haven't tried it
myself.

--Ray.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Raymond O'Donnell     http://www.galwaycathedral.org/recitals
rod@iol.ie                          Galway Cathedral Recitals
-------------------------------------------------------------

>
> i've been using postgresql quiet some time now, but i don't
> find any really good clients for "dummies" to this database.
> When i look at pgadmin:
> an anoying feature: it closes when u do something illegal, instead of
> saying: u don't have the rights to do this.

Which version of PgAdmin were you using?  III?  Or II?  In my findings, I
have had similiar problems to what you have been experiencing when using
III.  In some cases, PgAdmin III would actually crash my video driver when
executing random queries.  I would have to reboot to resolve the problem.
Version III didn't seem to work for me at all.  I have 'downgraded' to II,
and I have had no problems with it.  If you have not tried version II, and
all of your problems have been within the IIIrd version, I recommend you try
II.

Just my two cents...


- Onyx
---
Onyx Mueller
Software Engineer
i-cubed : information integration & imaging LLC
201 Linden Street : Third Floor
Fort Collins, CO  80524
970-482-4400 voice
970-482-4499 fax
www.i3.com

Wim Bertels <wim.bertels@khleuven.be> writes:

> Dear friends,
>
> i've been using postgresql quiet some time now, but i don't find any
> really good clients for "dummies" to this database.  When i look at

[snip]

Others may disagree., but among many reasons that I find Postgres very
attractive is that it's the open-source RDBMS least heavily used by
Weenies!</SnobMode>

And as another list member has already pointed out, the GUI admin
tools are continuing to improve.

Thanks

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Sievers   305 854-3001 (home)     WWW ECommerce Consultant
                305 321-1144 (mobile    http://www.JerrySievers.com/

Op dinsdag 18 oktober 2005 16:30, schreef Raymond O'Donnell:
> On 18 Oct 2005 at 15:41, Wim Bertels wrote:
> > When i look at pgadmin: an anoying feature: it closes when u do
> > something illegal, instead of saying: u don't have the rights to do
> > this.
>
> You must be using an old version - pgAmin used to do that at one
> time, and indeed it was VERY annoying, but that was ages ago. The
> current version is pgAdmin III 1.2.2, and a newer version is in beta.

I second that, although i do get an occasional crash, it is VERY usable.

Just my nickel ;-)

D.Kniep

By far the best I have used is the PostgreSQL Manager by EMS http://www.sqlmanager.net . The Lite version is free, the Pro version is a bit for a commercial license. I do more than fine with the Lite version for Windows. There's a Linux version as well, but I haven't used that. The developers are also very responsive to any problems you may have.

Wim Bertels wrote:

>
>
> suggestions to good clients?
>
> tnx,


Hi,

You should check out PG Lightning Admin(PGLA) at:
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com

We developed it because of the weirdness of PG Admin III on windows.
PGLA has a MDI interface with a MDI task bar that shows open MDI windows.
It also has a enterprise manager so everything is not in the same tree
view, and the tabs filter the open windows.
The biggest thing that annoyed me about PG Admin III was the way
it handled the function editor, and to this day it sometimes will shrink
up to the upper left corner or will open in the lower right hand corner
with 50% of itself off the screen.

All the SQL editors have code completion(including schema completion)
and function param hints.

Another good point is we will fix the bugs for you, unlike PG Admin III :-)

Check it out, you won't be disappointed.

Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com

In terms of really good GUI clients we are now at a stage where we are
spoilt for choice.
There is PgAdmin, both III and the new Beta are excellent.
Aquafold Data Studio is also nice.
I use SQLManager Postgresql Manager from sqlmanager.net all the time.
PGLightning is also very good.
I actually prefer phpPgAdmin to the Mysql phpMyAdmin.
And the improvements in the ODBC driver mean that linking your tables
into an access Database makes Access a very capable interface to the
Database as well, although it should be said that Access is not so much
a Database management client so much as a very capable application front
end.

What we are missing - and this is true really for all the Database
severs with the exception perhaps of Oracle (which has Oracle
Applications) is a decent competing RAD for developing custom database
front end applications such as forms and integration into an office
Suite. We have Access, which is very good wit Postgresql, but it would
be nice if there were other viable choices.

Of course there many application development interfaces to Postgresql,
and in terms of the Languages and environments available, developers
building applications against a Postgresql Database are especially
spoilt for choice. Web based front ends work very well. But none of
these are in the same niche as Access - which does allow quite complex
apps to be built in a time frame that makes it attractive and affordable
for small and medium businesses to consider developing their own custom
solution.

With some add on tools Delphi comes close, but it is still nowhere near
as quick as Access to build a bunch of forms , pump data into
spreadsheets, charts, word processing applications. It is often little
things that make the difference - the speed with which drop down lists
can be created is a huge boon to an access developer when the business
needs an app that really does speed the workflow of their transactional
staff.

I really believe that Postgresql could become Ubiquitous as the
Small/Medium business database of choice, because these business's
really do have more complex data requirements than can be seviced by
Mysql, and they do find SQL Server expensive. In addition many would
like to have the option of selling their custom application, so a BSD
license s atractive. There are already some great apps that are
postgresql based that provide a good case for ditching exchange and SQL
Server - DBmail, Open Groupware, at least two OSS CRM solutions, Bizgres
and Open Accounting.

Access is a good partner for Postgresql, but Microsoft will always be
motivated to use Access to drive SQL Server sales, so a OSS competitor
in that very particular, but also very large, Niche occupied by Access,
and to a degree - Filemaker and Paradox - is to be wished for.
Unfortunately, so far the candidates I have tried, rekall, Kexi,
OpenOffice Base - have all been disapointing when compared even to
Access 97 let alone Access 2000 and beyond.

Cheers
Johan

Wim Bertels wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> i've been using postgresql quiet some time now,
> but i don't find any really good clients for "dummies" to this database.
> When i look at pgadmin:
> an anoying feature: it closes when u do something illegal, instead of
> saying: u don't have the rights to do this.
> When i look at phpgpadmin (phpmyadmin is much better from a usability
> point of view),
> why wasn't this layout/structure followed, or at least a better one.
>
> To me the best client is:  psql ,
> but i makes it kind of difficult to convince the "dummies" from using
> access and/or mysql
>
> suggestions to good clients?
>
> tnx,
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>
> .
>

<With some add on tools Delphi comes close, but it is still nowhere near
as quick as Access to build a bunch of forms , pump data into
spreadsheets, charts, word processing applications. It is often little
things that make the difference - the speed with which drop down lists
can be created is a huge boon to an access developer when the business
needs an app that really does speed the workflow of their transactional
staff. >

Hi John,

Delphi is actually excellent, and while it has a slightly higher
learning curve than Access, it provides a flexibility that is
unmatched.  When it comes to database development there is nothing
better IMHO :-)

Access is for business analysts and such who can't/don't want to
program, at least that is how it is used at the company I work for, and
they(the business analysts) have dug themselves into a deep hole, they
now have over 1000 little access applications floating around and they
don't know what half of them do anymore.  If they would have done it the
right way they could have had a central data warehouse in PG and thin
clients built with Delphi and/or combined with Intraweb.

Another option that is starting to look really good is Lazarus
(http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/)  Zeos lib is available for it
http://www.zeoslib.net and it provides a very very very similar
experience to Delphi.

 From my experience it is best to stay away from Access for application
development if can.It does have it's place but I consider it a "evil"
way of getting the job done.

Later,

Tony Caduto

Hi Tony,
It is a while since I have worked with Delphi so as soon as I get the
time I will re-evaluate, which I have been meaning to do given that I
have seen some really great DB tools for Delphi that I would like to try.
I agree that when access gets used to create lots of small Databases
each with their own Jet back end the result is a horrendous mess. I also
find using Access as a front end to MS SQL Server using the the
recommended path of setting a Access Data project to be surprisingly
clumsy - surprising because the marketing from Microsoft so often
stresses the interaction between these two products as selling points
for both.

That said I have over the last few months completed 3 projects that used
Postgresql as the Data layer and Access 2000 as the Application layer.

First of all SQL Manager's (formerly EMS) Data pump tool and data import
Tool made the upsizing of the access databases to Postgresql far easier
than doing the same to SQL Server.

Secondly the work done on both the ODBC driver and the Windows port
resulted in close to completely trouble free development - the only
gotcha was ensuring that the ODBC timeout registry key needs to be
changed. Kudos to the ODBC team on a really great overhaul, and Kudos to
everyone who have made the Windows native port so much better than
anyone had a right to expect in the first version.

The installed base for Access is huge, the awareness of it's limitations
as a storage engine as opposed to client is widespread, the migration to
a two tier solution using SQL Server remains clumsy and fraught with
pitfalls, not to mention expensive. In addition even though almost none
of these Businesses are actually on selling the solution that they have
developed in house, all of them would like to retain the option to do
so, and migrating to SQL Server creates significant problems in that
regard. The BSD license, once explained becomes a big selling point for
a Postgresql solution.

So whilst I would be the last to in any way doubt the fitness of Delphi
for many of these tasks, I would disagree that Access is evil - in
circumstances like those outlined above the easy marriage of Postgresql
and Access could lead to much greater Ubiquity in the SME space. The
simple fact is that these are often business on a tight budget - and
every development minute that is saved does make a difference.

Cheers
Johan Wehtje

Tony Caduto wrote:
> <With some add on tools Delphi comes close, but it is still nowhere near
> as quick as Access to build a bunch of forms , pump data into
> spreadsheets, charts, word processing applications. It is often little
> things that make the difference - the speed with which drop down lists
> can be created is a huge boon to an access developer when the business
> needs an app that really does speed the workflow of their transactional
> staff. >
>
> Hi John,
>
> Delphi is actually excellent, and while it has a slightly higher
> learning curve than Access, it provides a flexibility that is
> unmatched.  When it comes to database development there is nothing
> better IMHO :-)
>
> Access is for business analysts and such who can't/don't want to
> program, at least that is how it is used at the company I work for, and
> they(the business analysts) have dug themselves into a deep hole, they
> now have over 1000 little access applications floating around and they
> don't know what half of them do anymore.  If they would have done it the
> right way they could have had a central data warehouse in PG and thin
> clients built with Delphi and/or combined with Intraweb.
>
> Another option that is starting to look really good is Lazarus
> (http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/)  Zeos lib is available for it
> http://www.zeoslib.net and it provides a very very very similar
> experience to Delphi.
>
>  From my experience it is best to stay away from Access for application
> development if can.It does have it's place but I consider it a "evil"
> way of getting the job done.
>
> Later,
>
> Tony Caduto
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
>               http://archives.postgresql.org
>
> .
>

Onyx schreef:

>>When i look at pgadmin:
>>an anoying feature: it closes when u do something illegal, instead of
>>saying: u don't have the rights to do this.
>>
>>
>
>Which version of PgAdmin were you using?  III?  Or II?  In my findings, I
>have had similiar problems to what you have been experiencing when using
>III.  In some cases, PgAdmin III would actually crash my video driver when
>executing random queries.  I would have to reboot to resolve the problem.
>Version III didn't seem to work for me at all.  I have 'downgraded' to II,
>and I have had no problems with it.  If you have not tried version II, and
>all of your problems have been within the IIIrd version, I recommend you try
>II.
>
>
its version III 1.2.2

ill try that

>Just my two cents...
>
>
>
>