Thread: Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

From
The Hermit Hacker
Date:
Have you looked at the available ODBC drivers?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani wrote:

> help
> Hi,
>
> I am a fresh graduate from India in commerce and do
> know a little about programming using VB, Java and
> Oracle...  I, along with 5 more friends, have received
> a small-time project (small for u guys, major for us)
> for developing a small application
>
> We are considering one of the foll.options
> A. Totally Linux
>    a. Only option is using Swings and Postgres/MySQL
>    Though this would technically be the best option...
>  But, in India, it is like only Windows is the
> well-known client-side operating system
>
> B. Norma for Indian
>    a. Linux Server and Windows client
>    b. Windows Server and Windows client
>
> Here, my problem is a very simple one...  I need to
> put my Postgres on a Windows server (this is
> optional... I can convince my project-giver to go in
> for a Linux server) ...
> However, I have a problem in that at least my clients
> would all be Windows-based... So, how do I install the
> clients... Can I get some kind of wizarded- .exe file
> for that... and where?
> Also, how do I make the connection between the Windows
> Server and the client... How do I specify... please
> could u send details rather than a quick overview ...
> It would be highly appreciative
> Lastly, is it possible to have a Linux as a server and
> the Windows clients interacting with this server...
> and pleaaaaaaseeeee plz tell me how to do that...  If
> possible, please be descriptive and help me to do
> that...
>
> All I can say is that I will pay back to the community
> all the favours and more...  PLEASE HELP... YOU CAN
> NOT REALLY MAKE OUT HOW FRUSTRATING THIS IS BECOMING
>
> Also, could u just give me yr unofficial comments on
> Interbase... Is it good enough?  ...or MySQL for that
> matter?
>
> Are there any free downloadable development packages
> for Postgres and Java...  Something better than Forte
> for Java
>
> Thanx
> Kapil
>
> P.S. : Where am I reqd. to post my queries related to
> Postgres, Java , Interbase...
>
>
> --- The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: >
> > could you resend the original?  I tried to read
> > through what you tried to
> > post, and couldn't get past line one before it got
> > all jumbled :(
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani
> > wrote:
> >
> > > help
> > >
> > > As per the advice of Mr. Bruce M. , I sent my mail
> > to
> > > pgsql-general@postgresql.org and
> > > majordomo@postgresql.org, but every mail is
> > bouncing
> > > back... Please help
> > >
> > >
> > > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
> > > One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness +
> > Security !!
> > >
> > > From Kapil C. Tilwani
> > >
> > >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664
> >         IRC Nick: Scrappy
> > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary:
> > scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> >
>
>
> =====
> Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
> One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness + Security !!
>
> From Kapil C. Tilwani
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
>

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org


Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

From
"Mark Cowlishaw"
Date:
I was asked to develop a reasonably large database application for my
company intranet. My boss comes from a heavily windows background and wanted
it all developed in MS Access etc but we're basically a UNIX house and I
knew that would cause havoc with the software developers around here (and
myself) who much prefer the UNIX way of doing things (and oftentimes run
Linux as their Desktop OS).

What did I do? I developed the application using a PostgreSQL backend with a
web interface (I used Perl for rapid development, but would have preferred
Java Servlets), and then used the ODBC drivers to connect Access to allow
MSOffice automation and custom queries within Access so the boss can create
his custom reports if he likes. Now I have the best of all worlds: Reliable
backend (PostgreSQL), a platform neutral frontend (Web Interface) and Office
automation through ODBC.

Works for me!


----- Original Message -----
From: "The Hermit Hacker" <scrappy@hub.org>
To: "Kapil Tilwani" <tilwani@yahoo.co.uk>
Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general


>
> Have you looked at the available ODBC drivers?
>
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani wrote:
>
> > help
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am a fresh graduate from India in commerce and do
> > know a little about programming using VB, Java and
> > Oracle...  I, along with 5 more friends, have received
> > a small-time project (small for u guys, major for us)
> > for developing a small application
> >
> > We are considering one of the foll.options
> > A. Totally Linux
> >    a. Only option is using Swings and Postgres/MySQL
> >    Though this would technically be the best option...
> >  But, in India, it is like only Windows is the
> > well-known client-side operating system
> >
> > B. Norma for Indian
> >    a. Linux Server and Windows client
> >    b. Windows Server and Windows client
> >
> > Here, my problem is a very simple one...  I need to
> > put my Postgres on a Windows server (this is
> > optional... I can convince my project-giver to go in
> > for a Linux server) ...
> > However, I have a problem in that at least my clients
> > would all be Windows-based... So, how do I install the
> > clients... Can I get some kind of wizarded- .exe file
> > for that... and where?
> > Also, how do I make the connection between the Windows
> > Server and the client... How do I specify... please
> > could u send details rather than a quick overview ...
> > It would be highly appreciative
> > Lastly, is it possible to have a Linux as a server and
> > the Windows clients interacting with this server...
> > and pleaaaaaaseeeee plz tell me how to do that...  If
> > possible, please be descriptive and help me to do
> > that...
> >
> > All I can say is that I will pay back to the community
> > all the favours and more...  PLEASE HELP... YOU CAN
> > NOT REALLY MAKE OUT HOW FRUSTRATING THIS IS BECOMING
> >
> > Also, could u just give me yr unofficial comments on
> > Interbase... Is it good enough?  ...or MySQL for that
> > matter?
> >
> > Are there any free downloadable development packages
> > for Postgres and Java...  Something better than Forte
> > for Java
> >
> > Thanx
> > Kapil
> >
> > P.S. : Where am I reqd. to post my queries related to
> > Postgres, Java , Interbase...
> >
> >
> > --- The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: >
> > > could you resend the original?  I tried to read
> > > through what you tried to
> > > post, and couldn't get past line one before it got
> > > all jumbled :(
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > help
> > > >
> > > > As per the advice of Mr. Bruce M. , I sent my mail
> > > to
> > > > pgsql-general@postgresql.org and
> > > > majordomo@postgresql.org, but every mail is
> > > bouncing
> > > > back... Please help
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
> > > > One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness +
> > > Security !!
> > > >
> > > > From Kapil C. Tilwani
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> > > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> > > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> > >
> > > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664
> > >         IRC Nick: Scrappy
> > > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary:
> > > scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
> > One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness + Security !!
> >
> > From Kapil C. Tilwani
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie
> >
>
> Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick:
Scrappy
> Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary:
scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
>


Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

From
Kapil Tilwani
Date:
help
Hi,
It would work fine to have a web interface in case the
application could be developed with that...  In fact,
we had started working on the project with PG and Java
Servlets et al...  However, we ran into problems after
a month of designing and actual implementaiton work
was over only because the browser / HTML is too
static...
a.  Extensive coding is reqd. for datatypes
validations on all forms and reports for filtering,
etc.
b.  Added functionality would result in havoc for
adding features like Grids as in MS-Access like
forms-subforms and browsing thru such records in order

c.  Non-use of client-side processing capacity i.e.,
under-utilisation and over-burdening the server which
would in case of client-server be just handling data
which would make it much more reliable
d.  The client would not shell out a single penny when
I tell him that two servers would be ideal for him...
One for handling data the other for handling http
requests
e.  Moving away from Windows is impossible fof him...
He has not heard that there is any other OS other than
Windows
f.  The client is not a jackass...  I cant conn him...
 He knows what all he wants in his software
g.  I am keen on PG/Interbase
h.  I KNOW YOU CAN HELP... SO, KINDLY DO
i.  This MS-Office interface you are talking about...
That would involve a lot of wizardry/programming...

Thanx
Kapil

--- Mark Cowlishaw <markc@ot.com.au> wrote: >
> I was asked to develop a reasonably large database
> application for my
> company intranet. My boss comes from a heavily
> windows background and wanted
> it all developed in MS Access etc but we're
> basically a UNIX house and I
> knew that would cause havoc with the software
> developers around here (and
> myself) who much prefer the UNIX way of doing things
> (and oftentimes run
> Linux as their Desktop OS).
>
> What did I do? I developed the application using a
> PostgreSQL backend with a
> web interface (I used Perl for rapid development,
> but would have preferred
> Java Servlets), and then used the ODBC drivers to
> connect Access to allow
> MSOffice automation and custom queries within Access
> so the boss can create
> his custom reports if he likes. Now I have the best
> of all worlds: Reliable
> backend (PostgreSQL), a platform neutral frontend
> (Web Interface) and Office
> automation through ODBC.
>
> Works for me!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Hermit Hacker" <scrappy@hub.org>
> To: "Kapil Tilwani" <tilwani@yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 4:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general
>
>
> >
> > Have you looked at the available ODBC drivers?
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil Tilwani
> wrote:
> >
> > > help
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am a fresh graduate from India in commerce and
> do
> > > know a little about programming using VB, Java
> and
> > > Oracle...  I, along with 5 more friends, have
> received
> > > a small-time project (small for u guys, major
> for us)
> > > for developing a small application
> > >
> > > We are considering one of the foll.options
> > > A. Totally Linux
> > >    a. Only option is using Swings and
> Postgres/MySQL
> > >    Though this would technically be the best
> option...
> > >  But, in India, it is like only Windows is the
> > > well-known client-side operating system
> > >
> > > B. Norma for Indian
> > >    a. Linux Server and Windows client
> > >    b. Windows Server and Windows client
> > >
> > > Here, my problem is a very simple one...  I need
> to
> > > put my Postgres on a Windows server (this is
> > > optional... I can convince my project-giver to
> go in
> > > for a Linux server) ...
> > > However, I have a problem in that at least my
> clients
> > > would all be Windows-based... So, how do I
> install the
> > > clients... Can I get some kind of wizarded- .exe
> file
> > > for that... and where?
> > > Also, how do I make the connection between the
> Windows
> > > Server and the client... How do I specify...
> please
> > > could u send details rather than a quick
> overview ...
> > > It would be highly appreciative
> > > Lastly, is it possible to have a Linux as a
> server and
> > > the Windows clients interacting with this
> server...
> > > and pleaaaaaaseeeee plz tell me how to do
> that...  If
> > > possible, please be descriptive and help me to
> do
> > > that...
> > >
> > > All I can say is that I will pay back to the
> community
> > > all the favours and more...  PLEASE HELP... YOU
> CAN
> > > NOT REALLY MAKE OUT HOW FRUSTRATING THIS IS
> BECOMING
> > >
> > > Also, could u just give me yr unofficial
> comments on
> > > Interbase... Is it good enough?  ...or MySQL for
> that
> > > matter?
> > >
> > > Are there any free downloadable development
> packages
> > > for Postgres and Java...  Something better than
> Forte
> > > for Java
> > >
> > > Thanx
> > > Kapil
> > >
> > > P.S. : Where am I reqd. to post my queries
> related to
> > > Postgres, Java , Interbase...
> > >
> > >
> > > --- The Hermit Hacker <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: >
> > > > could you resend the original?  I tried to
> read
> > > > through what you tried to
> > > > post, and couldn't get past line one before it
> got
> > > > all jumbled :(
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Kapil
> Tilwani
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > help
> > > > >
> > > > > As per the advice of Mr. Bruce M. , I sent
> my mail
> > > > to
> > > > > pgsql-general@postgresql.org and
> > > > > majordomo@postgresql.org, but every mail is
> > > > bouncing
> > > > > back... Please help
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> > > > > Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
> > > > > One Life One Partner - One Result =
> Happiness +
> > > > Security !!
> > > > >
> > > > > From Kapil C. Tilwani
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > > > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.ie
> > > >
> > > > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664
> > > >         IRC Nick: Scrappy
> > > > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > > > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary:
> > > > scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
> > > One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness +
> Security !!
> > >
> > > From Kapil C. Tilwani
> > >
> > >
>
____________________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at
> http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
> > > or your free @yahoo.ie address at
> http://mail.yahoo.ie
> > >
> >
> > Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664
>           IRC Nick:
> Scrappy
> > Systems Administrator @ hub.org
> > primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary:
> scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
> >
>


=====
Better Late than Never - Drive Safely...!!
One Life One Partner - One Result = Happiness + Security !!

From Kapil C. Tilwani

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

Re: Fwd: Stalled post to pgsql-general

From
"Mark Cowlishaw"
Date:
> help
> Hi,
> It would work fine to have a web interface in case the
> application could be developed with that...  In fact,
> we had started working on the project with PG and Java
> Servlets et al...  However, we ran into problems after
> a month of designing and actual implementaiton work
> was over only because the browser / HTML is too
> static...
> a.  Extensive coding is reqd. for datatypes
> validations on all forms and reports for filtering,
> etc.

True you have to do server-side validation, but then if you're sensible
you'll be doing that anyway regardless of your client side validation (what
about when people turn javascript off for example?).

> b.  Added functionality would result in havoc for
> adding features like Grids as in MS-Access like
> forms-subforms and browsing thru such records in order
>

Yup, HTML forms are a bit lacking in that regard.. you may consider java
applets running in the browser for that kind of functionality, or maybe some
DHTML..

> c.  Non-use of client-side processing capacity i.e.,
> under-utilisation and over-burdening the server which
> would in case of client-server be just handling data
> which would make it much more reliable

This is questionable, dynamic clients such as an Access/VB front-end talking
to a SQL backend will probably be running a LOT of queries dynamically
datafilling drop-down menus etc, plus you've got the network overhead you
wouldnt have when running the application code on the same box as the SQL
server.

> d.  The client would not shell out a single penny when
> I tell him that two servers would be ideal for him...
> One for handling data the other for handling http
> requests

Why need two servers? Apache (or PostgreSQL) doesn't take that much
overhead. If they expect so much traffic they need two servers, surely they
expect to spend some money somewhere?!

> e.  Moving away from Windows is impossible fof him...
> He has not heard that there is any other OS other than
> Windows

Okay if they have a windows fixation, Access/VB Frontend tied in with ODBC
is a possibility. But then, I dont think the web interface is completely
ruled out by your arguments. Alternatively there's always the java
application frontend (or applets running in a browser).

> f.  The client is not a jackass...  I cant conn him...
>  He knows what all he wants in his software

Well he has a pre-formed opinion that the solution -will-be-windows- ..
whatever that means. Give him an Access Frontend if that will make him
happy. Making bosses happy can be a good thing and you can do worse than
Access for a rapid development environment.

> g.  I am keen on PG/Interbase

PG works for me. Can't say I have experience with Interbase.

> h.  I KNOW YOU CAN HELP... SO, KINDLY DO

Well you have to do -some- work yourself ;-)

> i.  This MS-Office interface you are talking about...
> That would involve a lot of wizardry/programming...

Installing the ODBC drivers does not take wizardry, nor does figuring out
table linking in Access, nor mail merging in Word.