Thread: Tutorial ??
My feeling is that a user's guide should tell a person how to actually use the database system. First, I believe you are unable to start the postmaster from the information in the tutorial. I believe that is in the RPM readme. Second, (and I don't know how to do this) is how to actually get into it. I have read that somewhere but can't remember where. I think there should be some simple instructions somewhere between 'setting up your environment' and 'managing a database'. A tutorial should say " type XXX at the prompt" to start postgres for user XXX. I have often found that the basic and simple commands for linux programs are the hard ones to find. I mean, if you look thru the index of the user's guide, where would you look to see how to actually get the thing started? First there is the whole SQL language and all its items, and then the perl and tcl. Then we get to 'setting up the environment' and you think you are getting close. The next items are all about creating databases, etc. This seems like the place I would look. When you are actually ready to set up a database, you tell the syntax about how to do that, but there is no instruction about how to start up or log in. Just a suggestion.
Only as a little comment about this message. I'm not pointing anybody... I am a total newbie with databases but I have been able to install from scratch PostgreSQL version 7.0.2 and migrate the database we had on 6.3 successfully. Everything I needed to know was written in the little readme file at src/INSTALL. and since the installation procedures are probably different from platform to platforms, I guess they could not really be more specific in their manual. Being more specific would need to have installation procedures for all platforms ... So, to the people in charged of the documentations on PostgreSQ:L, I'm telling you that somebody with no experience on databases at all was able to install PostgreSQL 7.0.2 and migrate the database from 6.3 within an hour using those documents. Thanks guys ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul simdars" <psimdars@lisco.com> To: <pgsql-docs@postgresql.org> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: [DOCS] Tutorial ?? > My feeling is that a user's guide should tell a person how to actually > use the database system. > First, I believe you are unable to start the postmaster from the > information in the tutorial. I believe that is in the RPM readme. > Second, (and I don't know how to do this) is how to actually get into > it. I have read that somewhere but can't remember where. I think there > should be some simple instructions somewhere between 'setting up your > environment' and 'managing a database'. A tutorial should say " type > XXX at the prompt" to start postgres for user XXX. I have often found > that the basic and simple commands for linux programs are the hard ones > to find. I mean, if you look thru the index of the user's guide, where > would you look to see how to actually get the thing started? First > there is the whole SQL language and all its items, and then the perl and > tcl. Then we get to 'setting up the environment' and you think you are > getting close. The next items are all about creating databases, etc. > This seems like the place I would look. When you are actually ready to > set up a database, you tell the syntax about how to do that, but there > is no instruction about how to start up or log in. > Just a suggestion.
In response to Dominic: I made the mistake of looking at the tutorial for admin and new users. And, like I said, the instructions are not in those documents. I think they should be in those documents. Unfortunately, I didn't read the readme.linux, mainly because all of the readmes I have read before contain general release information and what is new, etc. I did not expecte that the few vital commands you need in there and not in the tutorials. Even though you were able to do this, that information should be in the tutorials where I suggested or they are not really tutorials. Dominic Coallier wrote: > Only as a little comment about this message. I'm not pointing anybody... > > I am a total newbie with databases but I have been able to install from > scratch PostgreSQL version 7.0.2 and migrate the database we had on 6.3 > successfully. Everything I needed to know was written in the little readme > file at src/INSTALL. and since the installation procedures are probably > different from platform to platforms, I guess they could not really be more > specific in their manual. Being more specific would need to have > installation procedures for all platforms ... > > So, to the people in charged of the documentations on PostgreSQ:L, I'm > telling you that somebody with no experience on databases at all was able to > install PostgreSQL 7.0.2 and migrate the database from 6.3 within an hour > using those documents. > > Thanks guys ! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "paul simdars" <psimdars@lisco.com> > To: <pgsql-docs@postgresql.org> > Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 9:53 PM > Subject: [DOCS] Tutorial ?? > > > My feeling is that a user's guide should tell a person how to actually > > use the database system. > > First, I believe you are unable to start the postmaster from the > > information in the tutorial. I believe that is in the RPM readme. > > Second, (and I don't know how to do this) is how to actually get into > > it. I have read that somewhere but can't remember where. I think there > > should be some simple instructions somewhere between 'setting up your > > environment' and 'managing a database'. A tutorial should say " type > > XXX at the prompt" to start postgres for user XXX. I have often found > > that the basic and simple commands for linux programs are the hard ones > > to find. I mean, if you look thru the index of the user's guide, where > > would you look to see how to actually get the thing started? First > > there is the whole SQL language and all its items, and then the perl and > > tcl. Then we get to 'setting up the environment' and you think you are > > getting close. The next items are all about creating databases, etc. > > This seems like the place I would look. When you are actually ready to > > set up a database, you tell the syntax about how to do that, but there > > is no instruction about how to start up or log in. > > Just a suggestion.
> I made the mistake of looking at the tutorial for admin and new users.
Someone just donated something which may be closer to what you are
asking for. The current tutorial is for SQL concepts, not for "how to
get up and running". The original tutorial should probably stay close to
what it is now, but could have additional details to help get you
started.
Thanks for the suggestions.
- Thomas
paul simdars writes: > My feeling is that a user's guide should tell a person how to actually > use the database system. It could be argued that the user's guide is misnamed. At the end of the day everybody is a "user". The user's guide as it is essentially describes the query language environment. (Okay, so "Query language environment handbook" doesn't sound quite as cool. :) > First, I believe you are unable to start the postmaster from the > information in the tutorial. Everything that has to do with the database server is described in the administrator's guide. Or at least I'm trying very hard to explain it there for 7.1. :) > I believe that is in the RPM readme. Second, (and I don't know how to > do this) is how to actually get into it. I have read that somewhere > but can't remember where. I think there should be some simple > instructions somewhere between 'setting up your environment' and > 'managing a database'. A tutorial should say " type XXX at the > prompt" to start postgres for user XXX. Last time I checked, the tutorial does just that. If the wording is less than ideal, then please suggest ways to make it better. The tutorial is the least maintained part of the documentation. -- Peter Eisentraut Sernanders väg 10:115 peter_e@gmx.net 75262 Uppsala http://yi.org/peter-e/ Sweden