Thread: db-engines Ranking for PostgreSQL

(woops, re-sending to OP as I forgot to cc the list)

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 AM, Sameer Kumar <sameer.kumar@ashnik.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I was recently going through the ranking of Databases given by db-engines.com
>
> PostgreSQL was ranked 5th, with a score 7 times lesser than Oracle and 6times lesser than MySQL. You can check their
rankingAlgorithm over here: 
> http://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition
>

The one question I always wondered about that was when they track
PostgreSQL, do they also include "Postgres". I think we're
particularly more susceptible to this problem than other databases.

>
> I wrote to them asking to improve the same by considering PostgreSQL user group discussion too for their ranking
algorithm.Below is the response I got: 
>
>> Hi Sameer,
>> Thank you for your interest in our ranking and for your proposal.
>> We are always looking for ways to improve the ranking method, and any ideas are very welcome. From the figures we
havewe don't see a significant advantage or disadvantage for open source systems caused by their specific communication
channels,but we will closer investigate your suggestion at our next ranking evaluation. 
>> all the best
>> Matthias Gelbmann
>
>
> I am going to provide them with a link where they can track user discussions and its frequency. Is there any
consolidatedview/search/count for all the different user forums we have in PostgreSQL community? 
>
>

I believe you can look in the archives to get monthly counts, but  I'm
not sure we publish those numbers explicitly in an easily digestible
format.


Robert Treat
play: xzilla.net
work: omniti.com

On 5 Dec 2013 23:52, "Robert Treat" <rob@xzilla.net> wrote:
>
> (woops, re-sending to OP as I forgot to cc the list)
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 AM, Sameer Kumar <sameer.kumar@ashnik.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was recently going through the ranking of Databases given by db-engines.com
> >
> > PostgreSQL was ranked 5th, with a score 7 times lesser than Oracle and 6times lesser than MySQL. You can check their ranking Algorithm over here:
> > http://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition
> >
>
> The one question I always wondered about that was when they track
> PostgreSQL, do they also include "Postgres". I think we're
> particularly more susceptible to this problem than other databases.
>
That's a good point. I myself search "Postgres" more often that PostgreSQL.
Let me reply to these people.

> >
> > I wrote to them asking to improve the same by considering PostgreSQL user group discussion too for their ranking algorithm. Below is the response I got:
> >
> >> Hi Sameer,
> >> Thank you for your interest in our ranking and for your proposal.
> >> We are always looking for ways to improve the ranking method, and any ideas are very welcome. From the figures we have we don't see a significant advantage or disadvantage for open source systems caused by their specific communication channels, but we will closer investigate your suggestion at our next ranking evaluation.
> >> all the best
> >> Matthias Gelbmann
> >
> >
> > I am going to provide them with a link where they can track user discussions and its frequency. Is there any consolidated view/search/count for all the different user forums we have in PostgreSQL community?
> >
> >
>
> I believe you can look in the archives to get monthly counts, but  I'm
> not sure we publish those numbers explicitly in an easily digestible
> format.
>

This helps. Let me share with them. If you look at the graph then you will notice that PostgreSQL has gained popularity in last one month :)

On 5 Dec 2013 23:52, "Robert Treat" <rob@xzilla.net> wrote:
>
> (woops, re-sending to OP as I forgot to cc the list)
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 AM, Sameer Kumar <sameer.kumar@ashnik.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was recently going through the ranking of Databases given by db-engines.com
> >
> > PostgreSQL was ranked 5th, with a score 7 times lesser than Oracle and 6times lesser than MySQL. You can check their ranking Algorithm over here:
> > http://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition
> >
>
> The one question I always wondered about that was when they track
> PostgreSQL, do they also include "Postgres". I think we're
> particularly more susceptible to this problem than other databases.
>
That's a good point. I myself search "Postgres" more often that PostgreSQL.
Let me reply to these people.

I doubt that will make much of a difference...
- Google lists 12.5 mio hits for "PostgreSQL database" and 3.8 mio for "Postgres database" (which they claim to look at).
- I guess by the nature of our beloved system (and its outstanding docs), you'll tend to find significantly less mentions/noob questions on {DBA,''} Stackexchange and the like... Postgres' quality is its curse in this case...  ;-)
- re. Job offers, we might want to mention "Postgre" as well ;-/  (Not that it would matter a lot, Oracle & M{y,s}sql are clearly in front there)

Just my 2p,

-- 
Gunnar "Nick" Bluth
RHCE/SCLA

Mobil +49 172 8853339
Email: gunnar.bluth@pro-open.de
__________________________________________________________________________
In 1984 mainstream users were choosing VMS over UNIX. Ten years later
they are choosing Windows over UNIX. What part of that message aren't you
getting? - Tom Payne

On 12/05/2013 07:52 AM, Robert Treat wrote:
> (woops, re-sending to OP as I forgot to cc the list)
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 5:23 AM, Sameer Kumar <sameer.kumar@ashnik.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was recently going through the ranking of Databases given by db-engines.com
>>
>> PostgreSQL was ranked 5th, with a score 7 times lesser than Oracle and 6times lesser than MySQL. You can check their
rankingAlgorithm over here: 
>> http://db-engines.com/en/ranking_definition

I've discussed their ranking system extensively with these guys offlist.
 I do think there are things about how they rank databases which biases
the ranking against PostgreSQL, but they are comfortable with their
ranking system and it's important to them to apply it consistently and
not retroactively redefine it.  Importantly, I think it does show two
things which are true regardless of numerical scoring:

* we are still behind MySQL and Oracle in terms of *established users*.
 That is, while a plurality of *new* DB projects are on Postgres, there
are millions of legacy installs of the earlier-established databases.

* their stats show that PostgreSQL is growing and the other databases
aren't.

Their data collection also shows certain things we ought to pay more
attention to, like that we're way behind in adoption in India and China
if google stats are anything to go by.

Now, the issues I have with how they score us are:

* the PostgreSQL/postgres/pgsql thing, as noted by Robert

* That stackexchange is counted towards our score, and our own mailing
lists aren't.

However, I did a rough recalculation with adjustment for the above, and
while we had a better numerical score, we still came out behind MySQL,
so I stopped arguing.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com