Thread: National community sites @ postgresql.org?

National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Nikolay Samokhvalov"
Date:
Hi,

Currenlty we have pretty good growing pugs.postgresql.org page, that
collects links to all local PUGs. As far as I can see, most (not all,
but most) English-speaking PUGs sites are hosted directly at
postgresql.org (or, more precisely, at pugs.postgresql.org). And all
non-English speaking ones have their own sites -- like
postgresqlfr.org or pgug.de.

Here in Russia we have a problem with local domain --the most suitable
one, postgresql.ru belongs to the person who doesn't want to donate it
(or even to sell it) to the community. Currently we are considering
Oleg's pgsql.ru as the most suitable name for hosting all the stuff in
Russian language (articles, news, events calendar, forum, wiki, etc).

During Russian community blog/wiki/etc setup process I've realized
that it's strange that in many countries people do the same things
separately. It would be much more useful, convenient and simply great
if we have:
 - one infrastructure to host community sites for any community,
country-wide or small one, in any language (news, events calendar,
wiki, forums -- this list is almost everything one might to want to be
happy);
 - uniform DNS scheme. For country-wide communities it would be great
to have 3rd level domains delegated to host community sites (e.g.,
ru.postgresql.org -- this would be GREAT) and maybe ip2geo settings to
show the notice suggesting proper community site directly on the main
postgresql.org page.

Particularly, I'd be glad to put Russian translation of PostgreSQL
weekly news to this site.

openoffice.org's infrastructure can be considered as some example of
this thing -- it has ru.openoffice.org, de.openoffice.org, etc.

This is not simple project, but it's doable. What do you think?

--
Best regards,
Nikolay

Re: National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Selena Deckelmann"
Date:
Hi Nikolay,

I'm so excited that you've brought this up.  I'm going to strongly
disagree with the idea of creating a centralized web infrastructure.
Despite the fact that I'm not managing the infrastructure, or really
have much say about what ends up being implemented. :)  I do like the
idea of creating DNS redirection to existing community sites to help
out with navigation.

I have spent a lot of time thinking about these issues and researching
things that go wrong in other communities. So please take my feedback
on your idea in that spirit.

On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Nikolay Samokhvalov
<samokhvalov@gmail.com> wrote:

> During Russian community blog/wiki/etc setup process I've realized
> that it's strange that in many countries people do the same things
> separately. It would be much more useful, convenient and simply great
> if we have:
>  - one infrastructure to host community sites for any community,
> country-wide or small one, in any language (news, events calendar,
> wiki, forums -- this list is almost everything one might to want to be
> happy);
>  - uniform DNS scheme. For country-wide communities it would be great
> to have 3rd level domains delegated to host community sites (e.g.,
> ru.postgresql.org -- this would be GREAT) and maybe ip2geo settings to
> show the notice suggesting proper community site directly on the main
> postgresql.org page.

I like the idea of a uniform DNS scheme that redirects to the
community-hosted sites.  At a minimum, we'll need a series of redirect
pages set up to disambiguate when we've got multiple language/regional
groups.

--

I am opposed to the idea of offering *web* integration of all of the
community sites into one massive web infrastructure.

Here's a recent article about the Perl community that illustrates most
of the points that I would make:
http://perlbuzz.com/2008/05/perl-decentralize-diversify-colonize.html

One quote: "Decentralizing and diversifying do two things. First, it
opens our minds to alternatives that we may not have considered. It
makes us more likely to find solutions that are better than what we
started with. Second, it helps with colonization, the ultimate goal."

One way to keep our community vibrant, relevant and authentic is to
encourage communities to host their own stuff, on their own domains.
My view is that postgresql.org should simply be a directory of those
offerings, not the storage mechanism for them.

I realize I'm being inconsistent in offering pugs.postgresql.org - but
in that case, we had a serious lack of user group traction in the US
anywhere other than San Francisco and Portland.  I'm also hosting the
Moroccan group - Africa has very few user groups.  It is possible to
set up pugs.postgresql.org to properly display most languages. There
haven't been requests for it yet.

My ideal future is that individual user groups become much larger,
spin off and want to host their own stuff and build their own tools.
Then, pugs.postgresql.org will simply redirect to their sites.

I realize that this is not efficient, or ideal from a management
perspective. But developing and sustaining communities is largely
about strong ties between people, rather than careful management of
data. And ties between people are inherently messy.

> Particularly, I'd be glad to put Russian translation of PostgreSQL
> weekly news to this site.

David Fetter, can you work with Nikolay to set this up? Or is this
someone else's area?

-selena

--
Selena Deckelmann
United States PostgreSQL Association - http://www.postgresql.us
PDXPUG - http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx
Me - http://www.chesnok.com/daily

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Peter Eisentraut
Date:
Am Mittwoch, 7. Mai 2008 schrieb Selena Deckelmann:
> One way to keep our community vibrant, relevant and authentic is to
> encourage communities to host their own stuff, on their own domains.

Then again, most communities are too small that they don't have the skills and
resources to host their own stuff properly.

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Selena Deckelmann"
Date:
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:20 AM, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 7. Mai 2008 schrieb Selena Deckelmann:
>> One way to keep our community vibrant, relevant and authentic is to
>> encourage communities to host their own stuff, on their own domains.
>
> Then again, most communities are too small that they don't have the skills and
> resources to host their own stuff properly.

I'm not saying we should get rid of the PUGS site --  it is a valuable
resource. DNS-based redirection for language/regional-based  sites
would be very useful. Especially in Nikolay's case.

Those that have the resources, should continue to run their own sites.

Here's the list of organizations, communities and user groups hosting
their own sites (that I know of):

JPUG - a non-profit corporation, not just a user community
PgEU - same
PgUS - same
ITPUG - has formal governance
Pg.IT
Pg.PE (Peru)
Pg.Brasil
China (forums)
PostgreSQLFr (France)
PGUG (Germany)
Grupo de Usuarios PostgreSQL de Venezuela
NZPGUG (New Zealand)
Pg.Gr (Greek)
PgUK

And then we have the Czech, Polish, and Turkish sites - I'm not sure
who maintains those.  There's likely more!

The .org role should be to provide an accurate directory that connects
all the sites together.

One of my goals for the PUG site is to encourage people to customize
their portion of the site - so that they are less uniform, and more
reflective of the personality of the groups. I haven't quite gotten
there yet :)

-selena



--
Selena Deckelmann
United States PostgreSQL Association - http://www.postgresql.us
PDXPUG - http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx
Me - http://www.chesnok.com/daily

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Andrew Sullivan
Date:
On Wed, May 07, 2008 at 11:20:27AM +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 7. Mai 2008 schrieb Selena Deckelmann:
> > One way to keep our community vibrant, relevant and authentic is to
> > encourage communities to host their own stuff, on their own domains.
>
> Then again, most communities are too small that they don't have the skills and
> resources to host their own stuff properly.

It would seem that this is the advantage of Selena's "inconsistency":
helping others get started when they don't have the resources or
skills (or size of community, another possible shortcoming) is not the
same thing as building a big centralized system.

A

--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@commandprompt.com
+1 503 667 4564 x104
http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
Selena, All,

I don't think a policy is a good idea.

I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr,
DE, Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't
want to operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should
host them on postgresql.org.

Why push a policy that isn't in line with what people want/need?

--Josh

* also, how do we handle domains (IT particularly) which have more than
one site?



Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Wednesday, May 07, 2008 08:05:43 -0700 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
wrote:

> Selena, All,
>
> I don't think a policy is a good idea.
>
> I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
> Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want to
> operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them on
> postgresql.org.

Selena, we can easily setup a 'ru.postgresql.org' subdomain pointing to the
pugs.postgresql.org VPS (ie. use it for both) ... no reason not to make the
resource available to those that need it, without limiting those that don't ...


- --
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkgiO6QACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvNpvgCghUDHt0STaUJckAK9Jzi1PmS1
foEAmwUS0TNIXboNZkGymL0He917erFm
=hCps
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Selena Deckelmann"
Date:
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

> - --On Wednesday, May 07, 2008 08:05:43 -0700 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Selena, All,
>>
>> I don't think a policy is a good idea.
>>
>> I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
>> Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want to
>> operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them on
>> postgresql.org.
>
> Selena, we can easily setup a 'ru.postgresql.org' subdomain pointing to the
> pugs.postgresql.org VPS (ie. use it for both) ... no reason not to make the
> resource available to those that need it, without limiting those that don't ...

Totally agree!  However, I think that Nikolay would prefer that
ru.postgresql.org pointed to a specific instance that had Russian
content, rather than to the English-language pugs site.

Can we configure a VirtualHost on pugs.postgresql.org that has a
different DocumentRoot and responds to ru.postgresql.org? And give
Nikolay access to it?

-selena



--
Selena Deckelmann
United States PostgreSQL Association - http://www.postgresql.us
PDXPUG - http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx
Me - http://www.chesnok.com/daily

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Wednesday, May 07, 2008 16:36:04 -0700 Selena Deckelmann
<selenamarie@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>
>> - --On Wednesday, May 07, 2008 08:05:43 -0700 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Selena, All,
>>>
>>> I don't think a policy is a good idea.
>>>
>>> I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
>>> Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want to
>>> operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them on
>>> postgresql.org.
>>
>> Selena, we can easily setup a 'ru.postgresql.org' subdomain pointing to the
>> pugs.postgresql.org VPS (ie. use it for both) ... no reason not to make the
>> resource available to those that need it, without limiting those that don't
>> ...
>
> Totally agree!  However, I think that Nikolay would prefer that
> ru.postgresql.org pointed to a specific instance that had Russian
> content, rather than to the English-language pugs site.
>
> Can we configure a VirtualHost on pugs.postgresql.org that has a
> different DocumentRoot and responds to ru.postgresql.org? And give
> Nikolay access to it?

Yes, that was what I was suggesting :)

- --
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkgiROoACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvMGogCfcE2u/LdW2XW74+VKBPRW0mgR
lvYAmwctR/HkhoRXUvuPT03TyHeLI7K2
=h2tK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Dave Page"
Date:
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

>  > I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
>  > Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want to
>  > operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them on
>  > postgresql.org.
>
>  Selena, we can easily setup a 'ru.postgresql.org' subdomain pointing to the
>  pugs.postgresql.org VPS (ie. use it for both) ... no reason not to make the
>  resource available to those that need it, without limiting those that don't ...

Not without playing favourites in areas where there may be more than
one group - eg. Italy.

Besides, we agreed long ago that <country code>.postgresql.org
hostnames were strictly reserved for mirror use.

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Magnus Hagander
Date:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> - --On Wednesday, May 07, 2008 08:05:43 -0700 Josh Berkus
> <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>
> > Selena, All,
> >
> > I don't think a policy is a good idea.
> >
> > I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites
> > (Fr, DE, Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities
> > who don't want to operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU
> > doesn't), we should host them on postgresql.org.
>
> Selena, we can easily setup a 'ru.postgresql.org' subdomain pointing
> to the pugs.postgresql.org VPS (ie. use it for both) ... no reason
> not to make the resource available to those that need it, without
> limiting those that don't ...

If you end up doing that, take care not to break our ftp mirroring
system which uses "ru.postgresql.org" as a subzone, and not a host...

//Magnus

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Thursday, May 08, 2008 09:07:18 +0100 Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:30 AM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>
>>  > I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
>>  > Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want
>>  > to operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them
>>  > on postgresql.org.
>>
>>  Selena, we can easily setup a 'ru.postgresql.org' subdomain pointing to the
>>  pugs.postgresql.org VPS (ie. use it for both) ... no reason not to make the
>>  resource available to those that need it, without limiting those that don't
>>  ...
>
> Not without playing favourites in areas where there may be more than
> one group - eg. Italy.
>
> Besides, we agreed long ago that <country code>.postgresql.org
> hostnames were strictly reserved for mirror use.

Good point ... so we'll need to come up with a similar naming convention to the
pugs themselves ...

But, to your point about 'more then one group', I though we were talking about
national communities (ie. umbrellas), not individual user groups?

For instance, with Italy, there would obviously be a link to the seperate user
groups expected off of the site ...

- --
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkgi7GsACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvMqFACfe+abRd9L3a9YbCqbVrJDfwJs
HcYAoOiGBGsbD+abW2ZWDxVs1IHHrO0C
=nzpk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Dave Page"
Date:
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

>  But, to your point about 'more then one group', I though we were talking about
>  national communities (ie. umbrellas), not individual user groups?
>
>  For instance, with Italy, there would obviously be a link to the seperate user
>  groups expected off of the site ...

So how do you decide who gets to run the PUG site?


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Thursday, May 08, 2008 13:07:42 +0100 Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:

> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>
>>  But, to your point about 'more then one group', I though we were talking
>>  about national communities (ie. umbrellas), not individual user groups?
>>
>>  For instance, with Italy, there would obviously be a link to the seperate
>>  user groups expected off of the site ...
>
> So how do you decide who gets to run the PUG site?

We aren't talking about PUGs here, or at least that wasn't my impression ... we
were talking about community sites, under which several pugs could exist ...

- --
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkgjE5MACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvO8OwCdEkeKIKaEXH+msi4/bXSoWTMz
yqUAnArNW40JRMEuthWuSpyZnqGcRhxy
=VA6j
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Dave Page"
Date:
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>  > So how do you decide who gets to run the PUG site?
>
>  We aren't talking about PUGs here, or at least that wasn't my impression ... we
>  were talking about community sites, under which several pugs could exist ...

There is a very blurred line between PUG and community 'group' in my
experience. Given there are two 'groups' in Italy, how would we decide
which was in control of the it.postgresql.org community site?

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Nikolay Samokhvalov"
Date:
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> Selena, All,
>
>  I don't think a policy is a good idea.
>
>  I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
> Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want to
> operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them on
> postgresql.org.
>

:-) I can't say that we are not able or do not want to run our own
stuff, what I was talking about is just that I suppose that people
from different communities are making similar things and would
consolidate their efforts to build smth better.

--
Best regards,
Nikolay

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Santiago Zarate"
Date:
What about making a special handbook, like a "pre configured" drupal
site (I guess most of us are using drupal with pg-theme installed),
and a step by step manual of how to do the stuff or who to ask for
halp/hosting/services W.E

2008/5/12 Nikolay Samokhvalov <samokhvalov@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 7:05 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>  > Selena, All,
>  >
>  >  I don't think a policy is a good idea.
>  >
>  >  I think for those communities who want to operate their own sites (Fr, DE,
>  > Br, IT, etc) we should redirect to them.*  For communities who don't want to
>  > operate their own sites (as, I guess, RU doesn't), we should host them on
>  > postgresql.org.
>  >
>
>  :-) I can't say that we are not able or do not want to run our own
>  stuff, what I was talking about is just that I suppose that people
>  from different communities are making similar things and would
>  consolidate their efforts to build smth better.
>
>  --
>  Best regards,
>  Nikolay
>
>
>
>  --
>  Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
>  To make changes to your subscription:
>  http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy
>

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Nikolay Samokhvalov"
Date:
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
> - --On Thursday, May 08, 2008 09:07:18 +0100 Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
>  > Besides, we agreed long ago that <country code>.postgresql.org
>  > hostnames were strictly reserved for mirror use.
>
>  Good point ... so we'll need to come up with a similar naming convention to the
>  pugs themselves ...
>
>  But, to your point about 'more then one group', I though we were talking about
>  national communities (ie. umbrellas), not individual user groups?
>
>  For instance, with Italy, there would obviously be a link to the seperate user
>  groups expected off of the site ...

In our -- Russian -- case we are talking about national community that
are being set up currently involving [supposedly] all Russian
PostgreSQL experts, including Oleg and Teodor and others. So, it's
really about community.

So, is it possible to handle the-most-straightforward name
ru.postgresql.org for HTTP requests separately from FTP ones?

Since there is a consistent objection to the idea of uniform
infrastructure, I think we'll better continue with our own stuff :-)
Most probably It will be at http://pgsql.ru soon.

BTW, I suspect that uniform infrastructure for national communities
will help spread idea of weekly news translation (now it's not only
decentralized but also is somewhat obscure -- it's not clear how to
quickly find, say, German translation, and moreover Russian one).

--
Best regards,
Nikolay

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Sunday, May 11, 2008 20:48:28 +0400 Nikolay Samokhvalov
<samokhvalov@gmail.com> wrote:


> BTW, I suspect that uniform infrastructure for national communities
> will help spread idea of weekly news translation (now it's not only
> decentralized but also is somewhat obscure -- it's not clear how to
> quickly find, say, German translation, and moreover Russian one).

We could setup a pwn.postgresql.org domain, managed by David (if he's up for
it) where all of them are archived, in the various translations?  The main page
would show the most recent ... ?




- --
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkgnNacACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvM2FACfakcxSOJ++6VkYiwJiivHjQvg
y3EAn3DJDNX/8qIiQEBtVj8V2Wji1syK
=kUbb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Dave Page"
Date:
On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> - --On Sunday, May 11, 2008 20:48:28 +0400 Nikolay Samokhvalov
> <samokhvalov@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> BTW, I suspect that uniform infrastructure for national communities
>> will help spread idea of weekly news translation (now it's not only
>> decentralized but also is somewhat obscure -- it's not clear how to
>> quickly find, say, German translation, and moreover Russian one).
>
> We could setup a pwn.postgresql.org domain, managed by David (if he's up for
> it) where all of them are archived, in the various translations?  The main page
> would show the most recent ... ?

Oh $DEITY no. We've worked hard to get rid of many of the subsites we
used to have. Let's not start adding them again (especially when we
have other means to handle the translation of PWN (planetpostgresql,
main website translation framework etc).

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Guillaume Lelarge
Date:
Dave Page a écrit :
> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>> - --On Sunday, May 11, 2008 20:48:28 +0400 Nikolay Samokhvalov
>> <samokhvalov@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> BTW, I suspect that uniform infrastructure for national communities
>>> will help spread idea of weekly news translation (now it's not only
>>> decentralized but also is somewhat obscure -- it's not clear how to
>>> quickly find, say, German translation, and moreover Russian one).
>> We could setup a pwn.postgresql.org domain, managed by David (if he's up for
>> it) where all of them are archived, in the various translations?  The main page
>> would show the most recent ... ?
>
> Oh $DEITY no. We've worked hard to get rid of many of the subsites we
> used to have. Let's not start adding them again (especially when we
> have other means to handle the translation of PWN (planetpostgresql,
> main website translation framework etc).
>

+1 :)


--
Guillaume.
  http://www.postgresqlfr.org
  http://dalibo.com

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
Guillaume Lelarge wrote:

>> Oh $DEITY no. We've worked hard to get rid of many of the subsites we
>> used to have. Let's not start adding them again (especially when we
>> have other means to handle the translation of PWN (planetpostgresql,
>> main website translation framework etc).
>>

I think that for the most part we need to work on having .postgresql.org
services serviced under www as much as possible. Even pugs, if we could
figure out a way to do it within the existing framework (drupal) I would
prefer to be http://www.postgresql.org/community/pugs

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

P.S. Dave that is $diety

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Andrew Sullivan
Date:
On Mon, May 12, 2008 at 07:31:07PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> P.S. Dave that is $diety

I know that losing weight has become a sort of religion in North
America, but in my opinion you're taking it a little far.

A
--
Andrew Sullivan
ajs@commandprompt.com
+1 503 667 4564 x104
http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Decibel!
Date:
On May 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> I think that for the most part we need to work on
> having .postgresql.org services serviced under www as much as
> possible. Even pugs, if we could figure out a way to do it within
> the existing framework (drupal) I would prefer to be http://
> www.postgresql.org/community/pugs


What's the aversion to subdomains? It's damn easy to tell people to
go to http://pugs.postgresql.org and look for Austin... there's no
way I can tell them to go to that URL you posted above.
--
Decibel!, aka Jim C. Nasby, Database Architect  decibel@decibel.org
Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828



Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 13 May 2008 19:26:38 -0500
Decibel! <decibel@decibel.org> wrote:

> On May 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > I think that for the most part we need to work on
> > having .postgresql.org services serviced under www as much as
> > possible. Even pugs, if we could figure out a way to do it within
> > the existing framework (drupal) I would prefer to be http://
> > www.postgresql.org/community/pugs
>
>
> What's the aversion to subdomains? It's damn easy to tell people to
> go to http://pugs.postgresql.org and look for Austin... there's no
> way I can tell them to go to that URL you posted above.

I am not against sub domains but I like the single point of entry
concept. I would actually expect that we would keep pugs.postgresql.org
as a rewrite to the above url exactly to address the issue you bring
up.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate



Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Selena Deckelmann"
Date:
On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Decibel! <decibel@decibel.org> wrote:
> On May 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> I think that for the most part we need to work on having .postgresql.org
>> services serviced under www as much as possible. Even pugs, if we could
>> figure out a way to do it within the existing framework (drupal) I would
>> prefer to be http://www.postgresql.org/community/pugs
>
>
> What's the aversion to subdomains? It's damn easy to tell people to go to
> http://pugs.postgresql.org and look for Austin... there's no way I can tell
> them to go to that URL you posted above.

Agreed.  Please leave PUGS as a subdomain. It has the advantage of
being convenient *and* cute.

:)

-selena


--
Selena Deckelmann
United States PostgreSQL Association - http://www.postgresql.us
PDXPUG - http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx
Me - http://www.chesnok.com/daily

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Decibel! escribió:
> On May 12, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> I think that for the most part we need to work on having
>> .postgresql.org services serviced under www as much as possible. Even
>> pugs, if we could figure out a way to do it within the existing
>> framework (drupal) I would prefer to be http://
>> www.postgresql.org/community/pugs
>
> What's the aversion to subdomains? It's damn easy to tell people to go to
> http://pugs.postgresql.org and look for Austin... there's no way I can
> tell them to go to that URL you posted above.

Agreed -- I've wished a couple of times for a slightly shorter URL to
docs too:

http://docs.postgresql.org/8.3/static/sql-shorturl.html

--
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:45:24 -0400
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> > What's the aversion to subdomains? It's damn easy to tell people to
> > go to http://pugs.postgresql.org and look for Austin... there's no
> > way I can tell them to go to that URL you posted above.
>
> Agreed -- I've wished a couple of times for a slightly shorter URL to
> docs too:
>
> http://docs.postgresql.org/8.3/static/sql-shorturl.html

You are only really shaving the /docs/ there. If we were going to have
that kind of rewrite why not:

http://docs.postgresql.org/ -> points to /current/static/index.html

I can see the benefit to strategic use of mod_rewrite that enables us
to do funky stuff... maybe even some cool stuf like:

www.postgresql.org/show/changelog

Which would dynamically pull the changelog for the last day as an RSS
or even:


www.postgresql.org/search/pitr

Which would pull out the first three links for pitr from
search.postgresql.org.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate



Re: [pgsql-www] National community sites @ postgresql.org?

From
Susanne Ebrecht
Date:
Selena Deckelmann schrieb:
> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 2:20 AM, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Am Mittwoch, 7. Mai 2008 schrieb Selena Deckelmann:
>>
>>> One way to keep our community vibrant, relevant and authentic is to
>>> encourage communities to host their own stuff, on their own domains.
>>>
>> Then again, most communities are too small that they don't have the skills and
>> resources to host their own stuff properly.
>>
>
> I'm not saying we should get rid of the PUGS site --  it is a valuable
> resource. DNS-based redirection for language/regional-based  sites
> would be very useful. Especially in Nikolay's case.
>
> Those that have the resources, should continue to run their own sites.
>
> Here's the list of organizations, communities and user groups hosting
> their own sites (that I know of):
>
> JPUG - a non-profit corporation, not just a user community
> PgEU - same
> PgUS - same
> ITPUG - has formal governance
> Pg.IT
> Pg.PE (Peru)
> Pg.Brasil
> China (forums)
> PostgreSQLFr (France)
> PGUG (Germany)
>

Selena,

please don't put countries to these PGUGs. For German and French I can
say, they are language based and not country based. Looking into the
German speaking group then you will find as much Austrians then Germans
also you will find Belgians at the French speaking group.


> Grupo de Usuarios PostgreSQL de Venezuela
> NZPGUG (New Zealand)
> Pg.Gr (Greek)
> PgUK
>
> And then we have the Czech, Polish, and Turkish sites - I'm not sure
> who maintains those.  There's likely more!
>
> The .org role should be to provide an accurate directory that connects
> all the sites together.
>
> One of my goals for the PUG site is to encourage people to customize
> their portion of the site - so that they are less uniform, and more
> reflective of the personality of the groups. I haven't quite gotten
> there yet :)
>
> -selena
>
>
>
>


--
Susanne Ebrecht
52066 Aachen, Germany

Email: miracee@miracee.de