Thread: Impact of a name change on third parties (was: The naming question (Postgres vs PostgreSQL))
Impact of a name change on third parties (was: The naming question (Postgres vs PostgreSQL))
From
"Gabriele Bartolini"
Date:
Ciao guys,
I have thought that changing the subject of the reply was more appropriate. I want to take the chance to reply to Greg too and express my thoughts.
Well ... I do not consider it to be silly at all, Greg. That's your point of view, but I am a bit skeptic and personally doubt that people would buy a PostgreSQL t-shirt when a Postgres t-shirt is out there.
Also, pens with PostgreSQL on it when the database is called Postgres ... let me say frankly ... are a bit harder to sell. And I do not feel silly at all. Just pragmatic and practical. I have noticed that both the French and the Japanese Users groups (two of the majors in the world) share the same concerns.
The issue here is that we have invested time and money (I repeat) in preparing this stuff to be sold and help self-finance marketing and promotion both locally and globally and I believe it is not wise to change the name with no proper campaign and time to get the most out of them in terms of ROI.
As I said, I would much prefer "Postgres" as a name, but I believe that - as every transition process requires - we setup an informative and transparent campaign to let users organise themselves. It is more respectful that way.
I really respect the core team opinion, and if they thing Postgres is the name to adopt, I will go for it. But I hope we allow at least a 2 years period transition.
This will give people time to organise themselves and nobody could blame the group for a sudden decision.
Also, consider this. In Italy we are founding the first Non Profit Organisation for the promotion of the PostgreSQL database. We would need to change it because it has legal impacts. Fortunately we are still in time to do it, but other communities around the world, I imagine, are in the same situation. At least in Italy, changes on the legal documents of an organisation cost money too and need time.
My proposal is:
1) change the name to "Postgres" if the core team decides to do so
2) properly plan it in a two years frame (or decide a realistic release - 9, 10?) and promote it on the website and in every occasion (conferences, etc.)
PostgreSQL is not my ht://Miner project - I could change its name and nobody would care! ;) - actually they would thank me for that!
PostgreSQL is a community product and it is not only property of the core team or the developers or users communities. We are not alone out there.
IMHO, we need to respect third parties (both commercial and non profit) if we want to stand up from a marketing and business point of view.
Thank you.
Ciao,
Gabriele
I have thought that changing the subject of the reply was more appropriate. I want to take the chance to reply to Greg too and express my thoughts.
I think we are getting a little silly here. If the preferred project name is
changed, nothing will _have_ to get thrown out, changed, etc. PostgreSQL can
remain an acceptable synonym from here until the end of time. There will
be little to no confusion - a simple FAQ item should cover it:
Well ... I do not consider it to be silly at all, Greg. That's your point of view, but I am a bit skeptic and personally doubt that people would buy a PostgreSQL t-shirt when a Postgres t-shirt is out there.
Also, pens with PostgreSQL on it when the database is called Postgres ... let me say frankly ... are a bit harder to sell. And I do not feel silly at all. Just pragmatic and practical. I have noticed that both the French and the Japanese Users groups (two of the majors in the world) share the same concerns.
The issue here is that we have invested time and money (I repeat) in preparing this stuff to be sold and help self-finance marketing and promotion both locally and globally and I believe it is not wise to change the name with no proper campaign and time to get the most out of them in terms of ROI.
As I said, I would much prefer "Postgres" as a name, but I believe that - as every transition process requires - we setup an informative and transparent campaign to let users organise themselves. It is more respectful that way.
I really respect the core team opinion, and if they thing Postgres is the name to adopt, I will go for it. But I hope we allow at least a 2 years period transition.
This will give people time to organise themselves and nobody could blame the group for a sudden decision.
Also, consider this. In Italy we are founding the first Non Profit Organisation for the promotion of the PostgreSQL database. We would need to change it because it has legal impacts. Fortunately we are still in time to do it, but other communities around the world, I imagine, are in the same situation. At least in Italy, changes on the legal documents of an organisation cost money too and need time.
My proposal is:
1) change the name to "Postgres" if the core team decides to do so
2) properly plan it in a two years frame (or decide a realistic release - 9, 10?) and promote it on the website and in every occasion (conferences, etc.)
PostgreSQL is not my ht://Miner project - I could change its name and nobody would care! ;) - actually they would thank me for that!
PostgreSQL is a community product and it is not only property of the core team or the developers or users communities. We are not alone out there.
IMHO, we need to respect third parties (both commercial and non profit) if we want to stand up from a marketing and business point of view.
Thank you.
Ciao,
Gabriele
Re: Impact of a name change on third parties (was: The naming question (Postgres vs PostgreSQL))
From
"vincent"
Date:
Just to blurb an observer's view on this: Taking 'SQL' out of the name may make it easier to pronounce, but those who have trouble pronouncing it now already have their own name for it. Here in Holland we call PostgreSQL simple 'pg' or 'pgsql' (which is quite easy to say in dutch) and that will not change if the official name changes to 'postgres'. If the aim is to make it easier to pronounce, youd have to do away with the "stgre" bit. I also wonder how those who are unfamiliar with pg will see this namechange, is it a sign of internal strength or is it an attempt to become more wellknown by making the making the name 'flashier'. And finally ofcourse my wonderfull and often used "PostgreSQL The Mug" mug will suddenly be seriously out of fashion.
Re: Impact of a name change on third parties (was: The naming question (Postgres vs PostgreSQL))
From
Shane Ambler
Date:
Gabriele Bartolini wrote: > > Well ... I do not consider it to be silly at all, Greg. That's your point of > view, but I am a bit skeptic and personally doubt that people would buy a > PostgreSQL t-shirt when a Postgres t-shirt is out there. Maybe - though some may want to get the last of the "SQL" t-shirts as a collectible thing - a part of history The real question here would be what quantities do people have of these products/pamphlets on hand? I have the impression that most gear is made up to get ready for a conference/show with no huge leftover budgeted for. A rough estimate from those holding stock?? > Also, pens with PostgreSQL on it when the database is called Postgres ... > let me say frankly ... are a bit harder to sell. And I do not feel silly at > all. Just pragmatic and practical. I have noticed that both the French and > the Japanese Users groups (two of the majors in the world) share the same > concerns. > > The issue here is that we have invested time and money (I repeat) in > preparing this stuff to be sold and help self-finance marketing and > promotion both locally and globally and I believe it is not wise to change > the name with no proper campaign and time to get the most out of them in > terms of ROI. > > As I said, I would much prefer "Postgres" as a name, but I believe that - as > every transition process requires - we setup an informative and transparent > campaign to let users organise themselves. It is more respectful that way. > > I really respect the core team opinion, and if they thing Postgres is the > name to adopt, I will go for it. But I hope we allow at least a 2 years > period transition. > I would think 2 years may be a bit long for a transition. Historically the project started as Postgres - the SQL was added after it left Berkeley to signify that the new buzz word of the time was incorporated into the release. Now we can say that we want to honor the original heritage of the project as we know that everyone assumes that a RDBMS has SQL capabilities. Just another 2c in the pot. -- Shane Ambler pgSQL@Sheeky.Biz Get Sheeky @ http://Sheeky.Biz
Re: Impact of a name change on third parties (was: The naming question (Postgres vs PostgreSQL))
From
"Gabriele Bartolini"
Date:
Hi Shane,
Ciao,
Gabriele
2007/8/31, Shane Ambler <pgsql@sheeky.biz>:
Mhh ... it's not just shirts.
As far as PGDay, that's not the case. Together with most of the European users and the International group we organised the production of 600 t-shirts to reduce the unitary costs. 200 shirts are for the International group, some of them have been sold during PGDay 2007 (I do not have the exact quantity right now). The quantity was intentionally high in order to be used in the forthcoming OSS events in Europe. It's been an initial investment that still has to pay up.
But it is not just a matter of t-shirts or pens, as I said. Rather of communication and promotion. We organised the first flyer that promotes PostgreSQL in Italian that at least will be used for the next year's activities.
In terms of Euro we are talking about roughly 3-4 thousand (expenses).
Maybe - though some may want to get the last of the "SQL" t-shirts as a
collectible thing - a part of history
Mhh ... it's not just shirts.
The real question here would be what quantities do people have of these
products/pamphlets on hand? I have the impression that most gear is made
up to get ready for a conference/show with no huge leftover budgeted for.
As far as PGDay, that's not the case. Together with most of the European users and the International group we organised the production of 600 t-shirts to reduce the unitary costs. 200 shirts are for the International group, some of them have been sold during PGDay 2007 (I do not have the exact quantity right now). The quantity was intentionally high in order to be used in the forthcoming OSS events in Europe. It's been an initial investment that still has to pay up.
But it is not just a matter of t-shirts or pens, as I said. Rather of communication and promotion. We organised the first flyer that promotes PostgreSQL in Italian that at least will be used for the next year's activities.
A rough estimate from those holding stock??
In terms of Euro we are talking about roughly 3-4 thousand (expenses).
Ciao,
Gabriele