Thread: Language issues in pgAdmin 1.2.0 beta

Language issues in pgAdmin 1.2.0 beta

From
"Magnus Hagander"
Date:
Hi!

When installing and running 1.2.0 beta (Sep 24 2004), I notice the
following language/translation related issues:

* PgAdmin comes up in Swedish by default. My Windows XP is english
version, no languagepacks installed. It's set to use English by default
in programs. The only thing that's swedish is the timezone and currency.

* The Swedish translation is incomplete, making it look really bad. When
it comes to release time, you should probably only ship translations
that are actually complete. Half english/half swedish is not a pretty
sight.


(this goes for both pgadmin installed using the pgadmin installer and
bundled in the postgresql installer)

//Magnus



Re: Language issues in pgAdmin 1.2.0 beta

From
Andreas Pflug
Date:
Magnus Hagander wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> When installing and running 1.2.0 beta (Sep 24 2004), I notice the
> following language/translation related issues:
> 
> * PgAdmin comes up in Swedish by default. My Windows XP is english
> version, no languagepacks installed. It's set to use English by default
> in programs. The only thing that's swedish is the timezone and currency.

Your locale is obviously set to Swedish, so it's correct for pgAdmin to 
come up swedish initially. W do can't detect the language of the OS 
version.

> * The Swedish translation is incomplete, making it look really bad. When
> it comes to release time, you should probably only ship translations
> that are actually complete. Half english/half swedish is not a pretty
> sight.

Unfortunately Swedish is one of the language that's orphaned, i.e. the 
previous language maintainer can't continue the work. Do you know 
somebody who could do that? About 250 strings are left, easy work with 
poedit.

It's not been finally decided whether to ship those incomplete languages 
or not. Currently, we'd lose about 12 languages we had been shipping 
with V1.0. Incomplete languages might force users to complain about it, 
which in turn might bring up the chance to gain them for translation work.

Regards,
Andreas


Re: Language issues in pgAdmin 1.2.0 beta

From
"Magnus Hagander"
Date:
> > Hi!
> >
> > When installing and running 1.2.0 beta (Sep 24 2004), I notice the
> > following language/translation related issues:
> >
> > * PgAdmin comes up in Swedish by default. My Windows XP is english
> > version, no languagepacks installed. It's set to use English by
> > default in programs. The only thing that's swedish is the
> timezone and currency.
>
> Your locale is obviously set to Swedish, so it's correct for
> pgAdmin to come up swedish initially. W do can't detect the
> language of the OS version.

Well, the locale settings per what you'd send to setlocale() (though
it's not handled that way, but the corresponding settings to show you
what I mean) are:
LC_COLLATE    Swedish
LC_CTYPE    Swedish
LC_MESSAGES    English
LC_MONETARY Swedish
LC_NUMERIC  Swedish
LC_TIME     Swedish

So you're somehow picking up the wrong locale setting. Probably because
the setlocale() call itself doesn't support LC_MESSAGES, you need to use
GetUserDefaultUILanguage() for this.

On my system this returns 1033, which is US English. (Swedish would be
1053). THere is also a GetSystemDefaultUILanguage(), but that one also
returns 1033 on my system.

GetUserDefaultLangId() returns 1053, and you appear to be using this one
instead of the UI language one.


> > * The Swedish translation is incomplete, making it look really bad.
> > When it comes to release time, you should probably only ship
> > translations that are actually complete. Half english/half
> swedish is
> > not a pretty sight.
>
> Unfortunately Swedish is one of the language that's orphaned,
> i.e. the previous language maintainer can't continue the
> work. Do you know somebody who could do that? About 250
> strings are left, easy work with poedit.

Yup, I noticed that one. Don't know anyone offhand. Dave alreayd asked
me, but I don't think I'll have the time to do it myself. I'll see if I
can find someone.


> It's not been finally decided whether to ship those
> incomplete languages or not. Currently, we'd lose about 12
> languages we had been shipping with V1.0. Incomplete
> languages might force users to complain about it, which in
> turn might bring up the chance to gain them for translation work.

Non-existant langauges might for the same thing :-)
How about a limit that says it doesn't have to be 100%, but it has to be
close, and it has to be actively maintained.

This is especially important if you continue to pick the wrong language
by default, in which case it will default to something broken. If I pick
it actively, then I'm more likely to accept it being broken and just
change back.

//Magnus



Re: Language issues in pgAdmin 1.2.0 beta

From
Andreas Pflug
Date:
Magnus Hagander wrote:

> 
> GetUserDefaultLangId() returns 1053, and you appear to be using this one
> instead of the UI language one. 

We let the underlying wx library choose the default, probably from 
GetUserDefaultLangId. Actually, for most users starting pgadmin in their 
native language is the best choice. At least, we got far more complaints 
when we did not use the default than now (you're the first).

>>
>>Unfortunately Swedish is one of the language that's orphaned, 
>>i.e. the previous language maintainer can't continue the 
>>work. Do you know somebody who could do that? About 250 
>>strings are left, easy work with poedit.
> 
> 
> Yup, I noticed that one. Don't know anyone offhand. Dave alreayd asked
> me, but I don't think I'll have the time to do it myself. I'll see if I
> can find someone.

Good!

> How about a limit that says it doesn't have to be 100%, but it has to be
> close, and it has to be actively maintained.

We had this near 100 % limit for 1.0, i.e. all language we're currently 
distributing are at least complete for 1.0 (and are at >=75 % for 1.2). 
Currently, of the 36 supported languages we have 3 which are known to be 
unmaintained because we have the previous translator's feedback, and 
some 9 more without any feedback from the former translator, presumably 
non-maintained too.
Even the partial translations should be somehow usable, at least 
allowing the user to navigate to the options menu to revert the default 
setting to some other language.

> This is especially important if you continue to pick the wrong language
> by default, in which case it will default to something broken. If I pick
> it actively, then I'm more likely to accept it being broken and just
> change back.

For 1.3/1.4 which we're probably releasing quite soon after 1.2, it's 
planned to implement some language update support, to cope a little with 
translations that haven't been finished at release time.

Regards,
Andreas