Re: [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

As someone who exists mainly as an active user (and part-time 
advocate/documentation tweaker), I have found the release of PostgreSQL 
7.3 to be disappointing. The ensuing pseudo-flamewar on the various 
lists has been similarly disappointing.

I was surprised, for instance, to receive a non-list email announcing 
the release of the software but then to have to wait for days actually 
to see it show up on the official (or even the advocacy) website in a 
news item. Even now it is not listed at PostgreSQL, Inc.

Consider the pieces of the puzzle here:

1) an official website (http://www.postgresql.org/)
2) an advocacy website (http://advocacy.postgresql.org/)
3) official mailing lists
4) a separate email database
5) a developers' website (http://developers.postgresql.org/)
6) an official ftp site (ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/)
7) mirror websites
8) mirror ftp sites
9) a corporate website (http://www.pgsql.com/)

While I have remained impressed with the software itself, the 
organization of these pieces has left much to be desired for the 
duration of my involvement as an end user.

As someone who works in a small startup company, I am a frequent witness 
to both the advantages and disadvantages of the lack of a strong 
benevolent dictatorship in the form of management. I think one of the 
core problems with the advocacy and presentation of the PostgreSQL 
project is the fact that it has been a developer-centric project for 
quite some time, and that process, while there are drivers, does not 
tend to affect much other than the code. There does not seem to be a 
single, driving vision (or even a Board or consensus-based vision) 
behind the public face of PostgreSQL. Granted, when a project is 
entirely volunteer-based, the management and development are loose. I've 
noticed that in many such projects, web design and maintenance become 
very low priority, especially when left to groups of hackers. Witness 
GNU, Debian, and, I would say PostgreSQL: extremely spare official 
websites often intimidating and/or difficult for the newbie.

I've wanted to see a bit more structure given to the PostgreSQL website, 
the release process, and various other portions of the project for quite 
some time, but often it seems as though such a structure would not even 
be welcome. As someone who has not had time to be a true developer on 
the project, I'm content to wait for the missing features I'd like to 
see.

Still, I'm hoping that developers and advocates alike realize that the 
release process and these lists are in the public domain, and the way 
business is conducted affects the perceptions of users as much as the 
quality of the software or any amount of marketing.

In any case, thanks for all the hard work. I actually thought the text 
of the email release I received was good and am working on the upgrade 
process now in my own environment.

-tfo

In article <29852.1039115828@sss.pgh.pa.us>,tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us (Tom Lane) wrote:

> Bruce Momjian <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> writes:
> > Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> >> Marc G. Fournier writes:
> >>> It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a
> >>> stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ...
> >> 
> >> Consider that a failed experiment.  PostgreSQL is driven by the
> >> development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base.  The
> >> last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix.
> 
> > Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the
> > minority on this one.
> 
> I tend to agree with Peter.  Not that we don't need a marketing
> presence; we do (I think Great Bridge's marketing efforts are sorely
> missed).  But the point he is making is that the pgsql mailing lists
> go to people who are generally unimpressed by marketing fluff.  And
> they're already "sold" on PG anyway.
> 
> The right way to handle this next time is to generate a PR-style
> press release to send to outside contacts, but to do our more
> traditional, technically-oriented announcement on the mailing lists.