Re: possible copyright infringement against postgresql writers, bloggers, and advocates - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy

Robert, sswug.org provides links to the creative works of others. It
does not claim to be the author of those works, nor does it claim to
be the publisher of those works (although one could easily form that
impression, which is where I suspect most of your concern lies). SoI
don't think that it is violating copyright, unless the links to
articles published elsewhere that sswug.org paid members follow end up
getting framed in an <iframe>, wrapped in sswug.org ads, and make it
appear as though sswug.org is the publisher of those articles. I'm not
planning on paying for a sswug.org membership to find out.

As an author, I do have personal experience with the DMCA. I recently
launched a DMCA takedown action when one of my works was infringed
upon (my text was copied from a blog post and republished
word-for-word on a different site without attribution).

What you're arguing against, however, is essentially no different from
a search engine providing abstracts and links to the same articles to
which sswug.org is summarizing and linking. The search engine also
profits from the work of others through advertising, data-mining of
search patterns, etc, yet it is seen as an essential thread in the
fabric of the Web.

I am _not_ saying that I like what sswug.org is doing. I'm just saying
that there has to be a very clear case of willful copyright
infringement before any further action is taken.

As an aside: I doubt that too many potential PostgreSQL users would
take the site seriously, as the platform categories for the site are
SQL Server, Oracle, DB2, XML (?), and "MySQL / Open Source".

Dan Scott

On 21/01/07, Robert Bernier <robert.bernier5@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Hi Dan,
>
> Two things:
>
> 1. When people write for a living it means everything controlling their own creative works i.e. copyright
>
> 2. From a legal standpoint, the site is in the wrong. I refer you to the following three links:
> http://www.llrx.com/features/bloggersbeware.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/copyright-ruling-puts-linking-on-notice/2006/12/19/1166290520771.html
>
> I started this thread because there are people in the postgres community who are being robbed and I think they should
knowabout it. Whether they choose to do something is entirely up to them. As for those who don't think it's an issue
forthemselves, just wait ... it will ... sooner or later. 
>
>
> On Saturday 20 January 2007 19:06, Dan Scott wrote:
> > Hi Robert:
> >
> > If the site does not host the articles themselves, but simply
> > summarizes an article and points to the article in its freely
> > available location on the Web, that sounds like a case of fair use
> > (known as "fair dealing" in Canada). Compare it to the New York Times
> > Book Review; the NYTBR is also a service you pay for (as part of the
> > Sunday edition), that summarizes books, even quotes passages from the
> > books, without funneling any money back to the authors of those books.
> >
> > I am not a lawyer, but I am a librarian, so I do have to understand a
> > fair bit about copyright. From the guy's explanation, and a quick peek
> > around the sswug.org site, it seems like there is no copyright
> > infringement taking place; the site may appear to misrepresent the
> > services it actually offers (it's hard to tell before you sign up as a
> > member that the site is not actually the publisher of most of the
> > information) but that's not a copyright issue.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > On 20/01/07, Robert Bernier <robert.bernier5@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > > Guys,
> > >
> > > What started out as a bit of diversion has ballooned into a hunt for what could be construed as copyright
infringement.
> > >
> > > This site, www.sswug.org, declares that it is "The Largest Independent SQL Server Help Resource On The Net". At
firstblush it appears to have datamined articles and documentation that includes, among others, the PostgreSQL and
FreeBSDcommunities and many, many articles from Oreilly's own website. It seems that the only way you can access those
articlesis purchasing a subscription access using your credit card. 
> > >
> > > Here's the response from the person who controls the site after recieving a request to remove the material:
> > >
> > > > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:20:01 -0700
> > > > From: Stephen Wynkoop <swynk@sswug.org>
> > > > To: 'Dru' <dlavigne6@sympatico.ca>
> > > > Cc: tribich@ittoolbox.com
> > > > Subject: RE: please remove copyrighted material
> > > >
> > > > Hello!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for writing - we're not hosting the content on SSWUG at all. Just a
> > > > short summary and then pointing them to your site, promoting your article.
> > > > It's a service we provide for members on the site - making sure they know
> > > > about great content and then sending them to the right sites. We also
> > > > indicate that it's external content on the summary, and outline this in our
> > > > terms of service on the site.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps explain. I am an author as well, I would never republish
> > > > content. :)
> > > >
> > > > Let me know if you'd like an account activated so you can see how it works
> > > > - but rest-assured, it's not hosted on our site, just pointed to on your
> > > > site. For example, these two articles send people to:
> > >
> > > I found this link that says he pays for contributions from authors:
> > > http://www.sswug.org/columnists/editorial.asp?wdb=09/27/2006&id=38
> > >
> > > So what's going on? Personally, I don't mind if somebody posts a reference to an article but charging money while
theauthor doesn't see a penny of it? 
> > >
> > > FYI: I used the google option "site:www.sswug.org ...." to see who from the postgres community is referenced:
> > >
> > > Josh Berkus: 240 hits
> > > Andrew Dunstan: 183 hits
> > > Drake: 5 hits
> > > Dan Langille: 1 hit
> > > Bruce Momjian: 31 hits
> > > Elein Mustain: 2 hits
> > >
> > > OTHER HITS:
> > > postgresql: 1100 hits
> > > Dru Lavigne (freebsd): 133 hits
> > >
> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
> > >
> >
> >
>