Re: [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training - Mailing list pgsql-general

On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Bryan Encina wrote:

> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:06:05 -0800
> From: Bryan Encina <bryan.encina@valleypres.org>
> To: 'Bruce Momjian' <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
> Cc: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [NOVICE] PostgreSQL Training
>
> > I think that is about the author of the web site, and is
> > being removed.
> >
> > --
> >   Bruce Momjian                        |  http://candle.pha.pa.us
>
> Since the last survey on postgresql.org had almost 80% of those surveyed
> wanting a standard worldwide PostgreSQL training course (and over 50% being
> strongly yes), are there any forseeable future plans for standard
> certification/training?
>
> Bryan
>
>

I think that, in part, this goes to issues like I mentioned to someone,
off-list, about a response to a query that I raised on the GENERAL list,
about the "Teach Yourself PostgreSQL In 21 Days" book, which is
advertised on the Internet, but which does not exist.

The absence of that book, is unfortunate, as, from what I have seen of
the Table of Contents of the MySQL equivalent, which I mention below,
the MySQL book appears to be a reasonably good, structured, way to learn
MySQL, and, an equivalent book for PostgreSQL; a similarly structured
book, with the equivalent exercises, would, I believe, be a good way to
learn PostgreSQL, in a structured way.

A while ago, on (I believe) the GENERAL list, a discussion occurred
about PostgreSQL certification, in which discussion, PostgreSQL
certification was apparently knocked on the head. I found the
discussion, by searching, using google, for "PostgreSQL certification".

As I had said to the person with whom I corresponded off-list, with the
knowledge that I have of database development, what I am intending to
do, as the only apparent option, in all of the circumstances, is to
obtain the "Teach Yourself MySQL In 21 Days" book, which does exist,
work through it, then sit the MySQL certifications, which exist (MySQL 4
Core Certification and MySQL 4 Certified Professional), and then, on
passing those, transfer the acquired skills and knowledge, to
PostgreSQL, by working through the book, as much as possible, using
PostgreSQL, and, working through available PostgreSQL books; thus,
obtaining open source database development skills and certification with
MySQL, and, while not formalised or certified, PostgreSQL skills.

It is fairly convoluted, but appears to be the only way of getting
PostgreSQL skills in a structured way, and, (kind of) related
certification.

From my understanding, PostgreSQL is a more powerful and more ANSI-SQL
standard-compliant DBMS, than MySQL, and, than major commercial DBMS's,
but PostgreSQL apparently lacks formal assessment and certification of
skills in the same way that MySQL has, thus making training and
certification for PostgreSQL, lacking in comparison.

The MySQL certifications, are international skillset certifications,
like MCAD, MCSD, MCSE, RHCE, and LPI certifications, and, from what I
understand, similarly, internationally recognised.

Unfortunately, the result of the lack of formal, structured, PostgreSQL
training and certification, and the apparent resistance to these, in
the PostgreSQL community, is that, like the Perl people, the result is
that practitioners appear to be hack-programmers (I do not mean that in
a derogatory way, but, in the sense of being lacking in formal
training and certification in PostgreSQL skills), in the absence of
formalised training and certification. I understand that, as with
PostgreSQL, in the Perl community, resistance to any form of skills
certification, exists. This is found by similarly searching on "Perl
certification". Thus, is the existence of the title, as apparently used
by many Perl programmers; JAPH - Just Another Perl Hacker. That too, has
been mentioned, in the discussions about the prospect of Perl
certification

I am not intending to troll, or to enter into any brand flame war with
this (and I hope that this message is not misconstrued as flaming or
trolling, but, rather, taken as the constructive criticism as it is
intended to be); however, I think that the lack of training and
certification facilities such as exist for MySQL, for PostgreSQL, is a
bit disappointing, and leaves the path that I intend to take, as the
only option available, to get into development using PostgreSQL.

I personally, believe, and, suggest, that formalised, structured,
training, and, international assessment and certification, as exists and
as is supposed to be being developed for MySQL, for PostgreSQL, would go
a long way to increased public acceptance of PostgreSQL, and, to the
maturity of PostgreSQL, and would thus lead to increased public use of
PostgreSQL. (And, a good Teach Yourself PostgreSQL In 21 Days book,
would be good, too :) . )

My wife is a software developer, by profession. She also trains people,
and has trained lecturers, in some of the development software in which
she develops.

However, when the issue of open source software development, such as in
PostgreSQL, arises, her employer company apparently steers away from it,
instead, steering toward software development, using software tools that
are internationally recognised and in which certification is available,
and, I believe that her employer company regards things like PostgreSQL,
as the dark and murky unknown, especially in the absence of any
recognised formal training and certification.

It is one thing to say that PostgreSQL is big and powerful, and that it
is (or, as I believe, is) the most ANSI-SQL standards-compliant DBMS,
and that it is used for such major projects as (as I believe) the .org
registry, but, in the absence of recognition of PostgreSQL as being
backed by formal training and certification, it is difficult to obtain
acceptance of PostgreSQL.

But, the issue of formal and structured training and certification in
PostgreSQL, is something to be decided by the PostgreSQL guru's, I
believe, and, until they implement these things, we are left in the
dark, and, required to do things such as travel the path that I have
mentioned, via MySQL. And, it is always possible, that, in
following such a path, and having obtained MySQL certification, a person
may stay with MySQL, thus, the path of formalised training and
certification, taking potential software developers, and, thence,
potential customers, to MySQL instead of PostgreSQL.

Thus, whilst, if I chose that path, it might not be any great loss, if
others followed that path, and, went to MySQL instead of PostgreSQL, due
to the lack of formalised training and certification of PostgreSQL
skills, it would be a loss of potential usage and acceptance, by
PostgreSQL, kind of like PostgreSQL shooting itself in its feet.

--
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
  Chapter 28 of
  "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
  A Trilogy In Four Parts",
  written by Douglas Adams,
  published by Pan Books, 1992
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