Re: Are we losing momentum? - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Davis [mailto:jdavis-pgsql@empires.org]
> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:07 PM
> To: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Are we losing momentum?
>
>
> On Monday 14 April 2003 09:30 pm, Dann Corbit wrote:
> >
> > And about MySQL:
> > It's also commercial.  You are not supposed to use it except for a
> > single machine for personal use unless you are a non-profit
> > organization or unless absolutely everything you do is
> GPL[1].  Hence,
> > you have to license it to deploy applications.  In order to have
> > transactions, you have to use another commercial product that they
> > bolt into MySQL -- Sleepycat software's database.  Now you have two
> > license systems to worry about.
> >
> > Compared to PostgreSQL, both of these tools cost an arm and a leg.
> > SQL*Server is closed.  You have to rely on MS to fix any
> problems that
> > crop up.  MySQL has a very restrictive license [for those who might
> > happen to bother to read such things] for both modifications to the
> > code and also redistribution of applications.
> >
> > [1] I realize that people cheat on this all the time.  In
> theory, they
> > could all go to jail for it.  It is certainly not a risk I would be
> > willing to take.  I have also bumped into people who had no
> idea that
> > commercial use requires a commercial license for MySQL.  There are
> > probably lots of people in that boat too.
>
> Can you point me to the relevent portions of the license?
>
> I tried to go through the license, but it basically seemed
> free (as in GPL) to
> me. My impression is that you can't statically link
> Sleepycat's Berkeley DB
> with software unless it is released under a free license
> (reasonable, kind of
> like the GPL, if you consider that reasonable). They sell a
> commercial
> version, which allows you to statically link it.

As another poster pointed out, Sleepycat is no longer the transaction
engine of choice for MySQL.
Here is the sleepycat license:
http://www.sleepycat.com/docs/sleepycat/license.html

Here is a fragment:* 3. Redistributions in any form must be accompanied by information on*    how to obtain complete
sourcecode for the DB software and any*    accompanying software that uses the DB software.  The source code*    must
eitherbe included in the distribution or be available for no*    more than the cost of distribution plus a nominal fee,
andmust be*    freely redistributable under reasonable conditions.  For an*    executable file, complete source code
meansthe source code for 
all*    modules it contains.  It does not include source code for modules
or*    files that typically accompany the major components of the
operating*    system on which the executable file runs.

We also find this on their web site:
http://www.sleepycat.com/company/legal.shtml
Which says (among other things):
"Sleepycat Software Legal Notices

Copyright (c) 1990-2003 Sleepycat Software, Inc., 118 Tower Rd.,
Lincoln, MA 01773, U.S.A. All Rights Reserved.

This product and publication is protected by copyright and distributed
under licenses restricting its use, copying and distribution. Permission
to use this publication or portions of this publication is granted by
Sleepycat Software provided that the above copyright notice appears in
all copies and that use of such publications is for non-commercial use
only and no modifications of the publication is made."

Notice the phrase 'non-commercial use only'

> I sort of
> get the same idea
> from MySQL: as long as you aren't trying to distribute it,
> you're fine (even
> in-house changes).
>
> Also, aren't mysql and sleepycat in the standard distribution
> of Debian? I
> would think the debian developers would be interested to know
> if the likes of
> sleepycat and mysql don't abide by the DFSG. That's actually
> one of the
> things I've always liked about Debian: read one set of
> guidelines, and trust
> the developers to ensure compliance across the entire OS (as
> long as you stay
> our of non-free). At least, so I thought...

For MySQL, form here
http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Using_the_MySQL_software_under_a_commercial_
license.html we have this:

"1.4.3.1 Using the MySQL Software Under a Commercial License
The GPL license is contagious in the sense that when a program is linked
to a GPL program all the source code for all the parts of the resulting
product must also be released under the GPL. If you do not follow this
GPL requirement, you break the license terms and forfeit your right to
use the GPL program altogether. You also risk damages.

You need a commercial license:

When you link a program with any GPL code from the MySQL software and
don't want the resulting product to be licensed under GPL, perhaps
because you want to build a commercial product or keep the added non-GPL
code closed source for other reasons. When purchasing commercial
licenses, you are not using the MySQL software under GPL even though
it's the same code.
When you distribute a non-GPL application that only works with the MySQL
software and ship it with the MySQL software. This type of solution is
considered to be linking even if it's done over a network.
When you distribute copies of the MySQL software without providing the
source code as required under the GPL license.
When you want to support the further development of the MySQL database
even if you don't formally need a commercial license. Purchasing support
directly from MySQL AB is another good way of contributing to the
development of the MySQL software, with immediate advantages for you.
See section 1.4.1 Support Offered by MySQL AB.
If you require a license, you will need one for each installation of the
MySQL software. This covers any number of CPUs on a machine, and there
is no artificial limit on the number of clients that connect to the
server in any way.

For commercial licenses, please visit our website at
http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing.html. For support contracts, see
http://www.mysql.com/support/. If you have special needs or you have
restricted access to the Internet, please contact our sales staff via
e-mail at sales@mysql.com."
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Note phrases like "you want to build a commercial product" and "When you
distribute a non-GPL application that only works with the MySQL software
and ship it with the MySQL software. This type of solution is considered
to be linking even if it's done over a network."