Re: PGadmin4 - Mailing list pgadmin-support

And my input on the subject of workflow...

For me, as a developer/maintainer/supporter, my number one points of interaction are via the Query Tool and the "View/Edit Data | Filtered Rows", the later of which is *the* most buried bit of functionality.

I realize everyone's needs are slightly different, but I am having a hard time believing that many of the fixed-items (Dashboard, Properties, SQL, Statistics, Dependencies, Dependents) are very commonly used on a day-to-day basis.   Maybe some people need to stay on top of the animated charts, but in my experience, once a DB is running on a suitable server, it doesn't require constant monitoring of Locks, Tuples in/out, etc.  And once the database has been deployed, there's very little need to see its Dependencies or Dependents or SQL, on a day-to-day basis.

But that functionality is actually the easiest to access... it's right there in the "toolbar".  Indeed you don't have to do anything to see the "Tuples In" animated chart because it's on the dashboard.  So, zero effort to get to infrequently-accessed functionality.

But what does get done, day-after-day, by anyone maintaining/supporting a database-driven application is looking up and tweaking a customer's records, or fixing a ill-planned migration, or planning out what will be affected by a potential new product feature... and the primary point of interest is (for me) the query tool and being able to see individual records.

But that's actually the most buried functionality.  Nested menus are a usability efficiency killer.   So, maximal effort to get to frequently-accessed functionality

*My* view of a perfect workflow would be to drill down to a table, and then have the "Filter Rows" interface (for the selected table) appear *instead* of the Dashboard/properties/sql/statistics/dependencies/dependents, so all I have to do is start typing and click execute.

I.e., make the frequently-accessed functionality as easy to access as possible, and let the infrequently-accessed functionality be a little less convenient to access.

Of course, I understand that other people may feel that the dashboard is their finger-on-the-pulse of their database, but that feels like it should be an option, just like you let people control which nodes they see in the "browser".

​

 

Thanks for listening,

Dave

On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Mark Murawski <markm-lists@intellasoft.net> wrote:

Hi Murtuza,

This is in regards to pgadmin4 2.0 on Mac (I've been unable to use pgadmin4 on linux for quite some time, the installation process is a bit of a nightmare, and I'm not the only one who feel this way)

I too have workflow issues that pgadmin4 does not meet.  I continually use pgadmin3 and put up with the bugs and constant crashes.


Cons and Major lacks of functionality:
- Metadata population is considerably slower than pgadmin3.   For a DB on the local lan it can take as many as 10 seconds to get into the database list.  Whereas on pgadmin3 this is nearly instant

- Multiple windows??  This is a HUGE missing part of going from pgadmin3 -> pgadmin4.  Each window can hold about 10 tabs without becoming a management problem.  6 of those are fixed, the 'Properties/Dashboard/SQL/etc' tabs.  So you're left with 4 spaces for your own tabs.  What DBA only has 4 tables/functions/queries/etc open at a time?  Of course you can open more than 4 and then scroll, but who wants to deal with that?

- More on multiple windows... I haven't really looked at the pgadmin4 code at all, save for just trying to get it working on linux... but I have a feeling that from the design of a web-shim, loading a web html/css type application, building in multi-window support is going to be a major pain.

- Tab management.  Have more than two queries/tables/etc open as tabs and then management becomes a complete nightmare and the program is just about unusable. (Tabs are force-named to Query-1, Query-2, etc.  Who knows what is what?

- More tab management.  If you've connected to your databases, opened up everything you need to work on, and then say, accidentally drag one of the multi-tabbed ancillary windows, you're either in the situation where you need to drag four tab-windows back to where you got them from, one by one, or you might be in a situation where the interface wont let you drag them back at all and they are left floating forever.  So your stuck with either working on a sub-optimal layout, or being forced to 'restore layout' which restarts the app and you lose all your window management, connections, and open queries that you've painstakingly set up.

- More tab  management. Unable to change text labels on tabs... Say you have your 4 tabs open and you're working on four functions... which one is which?  So now I have to mentally keep track that the first 'Create script' tab is function Z and the second 'Create Script' tab is function A.  The same goes for query windows.  Which one of the 7 query windows is the query for selecting * from foo?  Who knows... you have to either remember them all, or click through each one until you find it.

- Table Data copy/paste... What happened to the ability to be able to select a cell value and then paste it into another window?  Or select a whole group of rows/columns and then paste that somewhere?

Pros and nice features:
  The dashboard is pretty cool, to show you database activity.  I'll usually have my actual work being done in pgadmin3 and keep an eye on databases with the dashboard.

With pgadmin3-lts now supporting up to Postgres 10, there's absolutely no reason to use pgadmin4.  pgadmin3 is the clear winner in terms of usability and functionality despite the crash-happy nature of the app.

I remember a rant/post earlier in the year, or maybe it was last year by another user and it listed out a good number of lackings of pgadmin4 that limit its use of real-world workflow.  I'm sure I'm missing dozens of other missing items... but I think I got the major ones out of the way.

More Cons:
I'm just frustrated  and annoyed that I've probably spent about 20 hours getting pgadmin4 2.0 going in linux just to try it out.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.


I completely understand that a *huge* amount of work... thousands of man-hours went into pgadmin4 using the latest whizbang technology, but I think it's a shame that it seems like it was developed for the sake of just 'modernizing' it, versus providing a better user-experience and a better application. It's a shame that those thousands of hours weren't focused on pgadmin3 and improving the core, and even if major portions needed a rewrite because it was "just that bad", it would have been more value added to spend those thousands of hours doing just that versus a complete from-scratch application that's a far cry in functionality from the original it's supposed to replace.



On 11/12/17 1:20 AM, Murtuza Zabuawala wrote:

Hi,

Would you like to share what's not working in your environment?
It might help us improve the product.

Thanks,
Murtuza

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Nicolas ROLLAND <NROLLAND@grandlyon.com <mailto:NROLLAND@grandlyon.com>> wrote:

    Just to inform that every task we could do with PGad3 do not work
    with PGad4.____

    Here at Metropole de Lyon we all uninstall version 4 to reinstall
    version 3 which work perfectly.____

    So please keep version 3 available.____

    Thanks____

    __ __

    Nicolas ROLLAND____