Re: Idea: Avoid JOINs by using path expressions to follow FKs - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

From Pavel Stehule
Subject Re: Idea: Avoid JOINs by using path expressions to follow FKs
Date
Msg-id CAFj8pRAQFff2fsyDgGiizJD2C9-kF5-HVFAa6u791_=o3=zCFw@mail.gmail.com
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In response to Re: Idea: Avoid JOINs by using path expressions to follow FKs  ("Joel Jacobson" <joel@compiler.org>)
Responses Re: Idea: Avoid JOINs by using path expressions to follow FKs  ("Joel Jacobson" <joel@compiler.org>)
List pgsql-hackers


ne 28. 3. 2021 v 13:27 odesílatel Joel Jacobson <joel@compiler.org> napsal:
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021, at 12:25, Vik Fearing wrote:
On 3/27/21 9:27 PM, Joel Jacobson wrote:
> Imagine if we could simply write the SQL query like this:

> SELECT DISTINCT od.order_id.customer_id.company_name
> FROM order_details AS od
> WHERE od.product_id.product_name = 'Chocolade';

> I took the inspiration for this syntax from SQL/JSON path expressions.

This is a terrible idea, but let me explain why.

First of all, neo4j claims they don't have joins because they actually
don't have joins.  The nodes point directly to the other nodes.  Your
proposal is syntactic sugar over a real join.  The equivalent to neo4j
would be somehow storing the foreign ctid in the column or something.

Secondly, and more importantly IMO, graph queries are coming to SQL.
They are mostly based on Cypher but not entirely because they amalgamate
concepts from other graph query languages like Oracle's PGQ.  The
"common" syntax is called GQL (https://www.gqlstandards.org/) and it's
in the process of becoming Part 16 of the SQL standard.  The timeline on
that website says August 2022 (it started in September 2019).

If that timeline holds and ambitious people work on it (I already know
one who is; not me), I would expect this to be in PostgreSQL 16 or 17.
The earliest your proposal could get in is 15, so it's not that much of
a wait.

I think you misunderstood my idea entirely.

It has absolutely nothing to do with graph query languages,
except the one similarity I mentioned, not having joins.

What I propose is a way to do implicit joins by following foreign keys,
thus improving the SQL query language, making it more concise for
the simple case when what you want to do is an INNER JOIN on a
single column on which there is a single FOREIGN KEY.

There were some similar tools already.  Personally I like the current state, where tables should be explicitly defined, and join should be explicitly defined. The joining of tables is not cheap - and I like the visibility of this. On the other hand, this is very frustrable for a lot of people, and I can understand. I don't want to see this feature inside Postgres, because it can reduce the possibility to detect badly written query. But it can be a great feature of some outer tool. I worked for GoodData and this tool knows the model, and it generates necessary joins implicitly, and people like it (this tool uses Postgres too).


Regards

Pavel


/Joel

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