Re: Help me improve the 9.1 release draft - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy
| From | John Wang |
|---|---|
| Subject | Re: Help me improve the 9.1 release draft |
| Date | |
| Msg-id | CA+sy9GExEB=wOo1SRVzdj95uS8OyGpu-m=LcMRsOxJbH+Xc39A@mail.gmail.com Whole thread Raw |
| In response to | Re: Help me improve the 9.1 release draft (Michael Banck <michael.banck@credativ.de>) |
| Responses |
Re: Help me improve the 9.1 release draft
|
| List | pgsql-advocacy |
I'm still learning about this feature but wanted to put up some information for discussion.
In the official Pg press release, the feature is still called "Per-Column Collations." Is this common enough of a term that people will know what benefit they will derive? As a counterpoint, Oracle has a chapter in their Globalization (G11n) guide titled "Linguistic Sorting" which goes into detail on how linguistic sorting is done; however, it only mentions "collated" once. Is this a valid comparison?
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10500_01/server.920/a96529/ch4.htm#1008649
The guide talks about both monolingual and multilingual linguistic sorts. Sorting on Unicode is considered monolingual. Language-specific sorting is available as both mono- and multilingual. Multilingual sorting (e.g. FRENCH_M vs FRENCH) uses the ISO 14651 multilingual standard.
From the discussion, my impression is that the Pg feature provides monolingual, language/locale-specific (non-Unicode) sorting. Is any other benefit provided?
So two items:
(1) Would the feature be better listed as "Per-Column Collations" or "Linguistic Sorting"
(2) Is the primary benefit monolingual, language/locale-specific sorting.
John
In the official Pg press release, the feature is still called "Per-Column Collations." Is this common enough of a term that people will know what benefit they will derive? As a counterpoint, Oracle has a chapter in their Globalization (G11n) guide titled "Linguistic Sorting" which goes into detail on how linguistic sorting is done; however, it only mentions "collated" once. Is this a valid comparison?
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B10500_01/server.920/a96529/ch4.htm#1008649
The guide talks about both monolingual and multilingual linguistic sorts. Sorting on Unicode is considered monolingual. Language-specific sorting is available as both mono- and multilingual. Multilingual sorting (e.g. FRENCH_M vs FRENCH) uses the ISO 14651 multilingual standard.
From the discussion, my impression is that the Pg feature provides monolingual, language/locale-specific (non-Unicode) sorting. Is any other benefit provided?
So two items:
(1) Would the feature be better listed as "Per-Column Collations" or "Linguistic Sorting"
(2) Is the primary benefit monolingual, language/locale-specific sorting.
John
On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Michael Banck <michael.banck@credativ.de> wrote:
Am Donnerstag, den 25.08.2011, 16:47 +0300 schrieb Peter Eisentraut:> On ons, 2011-08-24 at 17:00 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote:> > Here's a considerably expanded and improved 9.1 release:Heh, I wondered the same and pointed that out to Josh on IRC earlier
> >
> > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/91releasedraft
> >
> > I'd like to get this to the translators in the next 48 hours, so please
> > send me last-minute corrections!
>
> This looks a bit funny:
>
> """
> Linguistic Sorting using Collations: Improve multilingual (M17n)
> correctness and user-friendliness with proper and consistent linguistic
> sorting rules. PostgreSQL linguistic sort supports monolingual and
> multilingual text and is often requested for sorting of diacritics.
> Sorting can be performed using language/locale-specific rules or using
> UTF-8 for multilingual sorting. For flexibility, collations can be set
> on columns, domains, indexes and expressions.
> """
>
> I don't know how one would get from "multilingual" to "M17n". Also, we
> don't support "multilingual text", which is text that consists of
> multiple languages(?). Also, you can't sort "using UTF-8".
today.
M17n expands to "Multilingualization"; I do not think that is a common
enough expansion that people won't think "how do they get from
multilingual to m17n??", so either adding that in parenthesis, or just
using that instead of "multililngual" (if grammar allows) would be
better IMO.
Whether or not it is applicable at all is another matter, of course.
Michael
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