Re: [pgsql-www] Forums at postgresql.com.au - Mailing list pgsql-general

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 14:46, Elliot Chance <elliotchance@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> forums@postgresql.com.au is pointed to a black hole so that email disappears but the mailing list gets another
copy.When the mailing list gets its copy it sends a copy to the forum (because the forum is just like a subscribed
user),the parser then dissects the headers to find out where the post belongs. We already know this part works. 
>>
>> So how does one respond to the user?
>
> I can't explain it any clearer, your email response goes to the mailing list and that mailing list sends a copy to
theoriginal person thats how a mailing list works. It also sends a copy to the forum which is parses you and that
personand anyone else can see the reply on the forum. 

Clearly you're not understanding my point. I don't *want* it to go to
the list. I want to write a private email to the user who made a post
from the forum, without having to set up and use a forum account. Just
a simple response, just the way I can do now.

But I'll leave it to somebody else to attempt to explain that, since I
clearly am unable to get it across.


>>>> Uh, no. Not when you're accessing the interface with the proper
>>>> password (one that has permissions to do admin actions on the list).
>>>> The code in that example does not require confirmation for the
>>>> subscriptions. It does, I think, send out the "welcome to the xyz
>>>> list" mail, but that should also be easily scriptable away.
>>>
>>> Theres no way I'm relying on the fact that every person that signs up to the forums will be informed enough to
realisethat the forum is more-or-less just a front for the mailing list. If I signed up to a forum and got and email
saying"welcome to the mailing list" I would think "Um, I didn't sign up to this" and unsubscribe. Now all my posts will
berejected by the mailing list and my posts will goto thin air without me ever knowing. 
>>
>> Like I said, "that should also be easily scriptable away". Yes, it
>> will take more than zero seconds of work to look into how to do it.
>
> As theres no way or checking the subscription status of an address I would have to subscribe them every post. And i'm
surethey would get really annoyed when every they unsubscribe from the mailing list and make a post on the forum they
keepgetting "welcome to the mailing list" emails. 

Sure there is. If you looked at the script I sent, you would notice it
does just that - checks if a user is already subscribed, and
subscribes him/her if not on there only.

And you're still stuck on the "keep getting the welcome mail", even
though I've told you several times that I'm certain you can make it
work without having it send that out.

Again, I give up. It can be done, but clearly I can't explain it in a
way that you can understand. Hopefully somebody else can understand
what I'm saying and explain it further.


>>>> You are still not understanding the problem. Since I *don't have the
>>>> users email address*, I can't send it the normal way. I have nowhere
>>>> to send it.
>>>
>>> Explained above, your not sending it to the person your sending it back to the mailing list. I know this works
becauseI've been testing it with my own address like a dummy mailing list. 
>>
>> At the risk of sounding like a broken record.. I don't *WANT* to send
>> it to the list, in this scenario. I want to send it to the *person*.
>
> Theres only two possible scenarios;
> 1. The person is signed up to the mailing list, in which case they will get your reply when its passed through the
mailinglist like they should. 

Seriously? Please read what I wrote. Or at least try.

I am NOT SENDING IT TO THE LIST.

I am sending it DIRECTLY TO THE PERSON.

Or rather, I'm trying, but it goes to forum@, which is a blackhole
that throws it away.

That shall, again,  be my last attempt. But solving the problem is a
*requirement*, so hopefully someone can explain it better.


>>> If you want to personally reach John Doe you can use either the PM or email system in the forum - and you know how
toreach him by his name. And perhaps a URL at the bottom of the email. If you just want to reply to him then i've
explainthat above. 
>>
>> But I'm not *on* the forum, I'm using the mailinglist.
>>
>> The URL at the bottom is an acceptable solution, if you can make it
>> work transparently. I just don't understand how you can do that -
>> since I haven't signed up, I don't have a password.And you can't
>> encode it in the URL, because it goes into public archives... So how
>> would that URL *work*?
>>
>
> This is your forum account http://forums.postgresql.com.au/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=101
>
> Anyone that posts to the mailing list becomes a member of the forum so that their emails can be used as posts
otherwisethere would be one giant MailingList user that has 99%+ of the forum posts which is a terrible idea. 

I can't use it, because I don't have my password. And I need to be
able to contact people via email, since *my* interface is email.

(And yes, single account is a terrible idea, I totally agree with that)


>>>> How do I access the forums private message feature, since I'm not
>>>> registered in the forum software?
>>>
>>> Again, you are registered, you have a password but you'l have to recover it the first time to be able to login to
theforum to send PMs/emails etc. 
>>
>> So basically, I can't respond to posts made from the forum then,
>> because having to go through such a cycle is certainly broken enough
>> that I would never use it.
>>
>> Based on that, I'm back to saying that the email has to be generated
>> from a valid email address, that can be used for return traffic.
>> Whether it's the users original address or a forum-specific one is a
>> different question, but a blackhole catch-all one just won't do.
>>
>
> Nothings changed if you wish to continue using the mailing lists.

Except I can no longer respond to people in private, which is a
feature I (and many others) use extensively.


Anyway, I've tried and repeatedly failed to explain what the
requirements that I put up there are. I know others have understood
them (from offlist conversations), so I leave it to somebody else to
take over if this is going to ever get to completion, since we seem to
just be talking past each other.


--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/