Re: Rant to the guiding lights of Postgres - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy

There isn't a .mak file for pg_dumpall, nor for any client program except psql as far as I can see. In fact, the nightmare difficulties of keeping MS type makefiles in sync with our GNU type makefiles is one of the big reasons that we chose to adopt MinGW instead as the supported build environment for the native Windows port.

With the Win32 port there will be native Windows versions of all programs. It would certainly make sense to have a "clients only" Windows install package, as well as a "server+clients" package - although I am not working on the packaging. I have no knowledge about Mac clients, although I believe the full range of programs work on OS-X.

You might be able to get someone (e.g. me :-) ) to work for $$$ making packaged Windows binaries of other 7.4.1 client apps, assuming it is possible, if they are required before the next release. I doubt anyone will work on it otherwise - those of us interested in Windows apps are concentrating on the full Windows port.

My own solution to the problem, if I am using a non-Unix workstation, is usually to connect to a Unix box (via ssh and/or VNC) and run the required client from there. That plus Samba and/or NFS allow me to put things where I want and run them where I can.

My own opinion is that Cygwin is usually fine for client use such as this - I agree that I wouldn't run it for production server use.

cheers

andrew





Robert Treat wrote:

So the counter to this of course is "Hey Paul, we'll give you a complete
database server for free to replace your existing databases and save you
tons and tons of $$$, and all we ask in return is that you write a small
terminal program for your OS and donate it back."   That sure sounds
like a good trade to me, don't you think?

In reality though I'm pretty sure that psql and pg_dumpall do compile
under Win32 and MacOS, if not under 7.4 then certainly under 7.5, so
really these options are already available to you, they are just not in
a pretty package. (hey, let me CC one of the developers in case not...) 

Now, if you want to help by compiling the client programs and wrapping
them up into a nice one click install for windows users (or mac users)
we have project space available on gborg.postgresql.org you're more than
welcome to use. Otherwise you'll have to wait for someone else to decide
they want to maintain such a thing, and no one has stepped up yet
(though it has been discussed before)

Robert Treat

On Wed, 2004-02-11 at 08:58, Paul Smith wrote: 

I am evaluating Postgres for an existing Java application. I already have 
the app running with Oracle ($$$) and Sybase (oooold!) and I am trying to 
convince my management that it is worth going fully open source. (We already 
use Java, JBoss, Eclipse etc.) But the problem I am having, and it seems I 
am not alone, is the absence of Client support in postgres. I can fully 
understand why the db server is Linux/Unix as this covers the majority of 
servers used for enterprise applications, but I can not understand the 
abscence of platform support for the client software. Where is the Mac psql, 
or the Win XP version of pg_dumpall? Clients do not use Linux boxes, they 
use Wintel or Mac boxes. You do not have to like it, but ignoring them 
doesn't make them go away.

I do not need the fancy GUI interfaces like PGExplorer, they are nice, and 
handy to port my scripts and test my stored procedures, but I can't use them 
to automate the creation of my database.

Sybase had iSQL for scripts and bcp for data loading. Oracle had sqlplus and 
sqlldr. These are the basic client side tools required to automate the setup 
and maintence of a non-trival database, and they are available on almost any 
platform you care to name.

And before anybody suggests I use Cygwin, I have used Cygwin, I do not like 
it (mild understatement) and nor am I prepared to learn Tcl just to run a 
script that already works. Run a script to load a telnet session to run a 
script to run my script? Be serious.

Please, guys. Open source is the way to go. We need to convince accountants 
that it is the sensible, safe and cheap way to develop software. But that 
means we have to do our jobs! When we write client-server systems, write the 
clients as well as the servers.

Can it really be that difficult to write a native mode psql? Have you 
considered doing it in Java?