Re: For the ametures. (related to "Are we losing momentum?") - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

Hi Dave,

A brief defence of my posting.  After which I'll retire to my side of 
the fence :)

>>-    A true Windows version which people can learn their craft on.
> 
> Coming with 7.4...

I look forward to this greatly.  Maybe here I'll have the chance to fix 
some problems for the greater community.

>>-    Tools which look like Access, to do row level data 
>>editing with no SQL.
> 
> 
> http://www.pgadmin.org/
> 
> It looks more like SQL Server's Enterprise Manager but does most if not
> all of what I expect you need.

Sorry, my fault, an excellent program.

> The tarball includes the complete documentation in HTML format, and in
> pgAdmin there's a searchable copy in the main chm help file.

But not the API's.  Not in one central location.  Some of it, the stuff 
I use, is on GBorg, and in inconsistent format.  I have personally found 
some documentation very fragmented.  So a subtle point about an ability 
is lost as I have assumed all comments to be in a few pages, and missed 
something vital or relevent in another sourse.  Eg, see my comment at 
the end.  But it's better than msdn :)

>>-    Data types like 'ENUM' which appeal to ametures.
> 
> Isn't that just syntactic sugar for a column with a check for specific
> values on it?

Yes :)  By point is not that PostgreSQL is lacking, only that the 
ameture finds others more friendly and inviting.

Although this may be a point which is irrelevent?

My personal 'gripe' was when reading through the postings, some people 
considered people who have not the time, patience or ability, to learn 
PostgreSQL completelly, somehow not worthy.

I wanted to support us dumb users! :)

>>-    There are no administrative mandatorys.  Eg, VACUUM.  
>>(A stand-alone 
>>commercial app, like an Email client, will be contrainted by 
>>having to 
>>be an app and a DBA in one.)
> 
> PostgreSQL is by no means alone in this requirement. SQL Server for
> example has 'optimizations' that are performed usually as part of a
> scheduled maintenance plan and are analagous to vacuum in some ways.

Is this a weekness in DBMS's that don't require this?  (MySQL, Liant 
etc.)  Is there a way of building a guarbage collector into the system? 
My Windows PC has no 'cron'.

>>-    The tables (not innodb) are in different files of the 
>>same name. 
>>Allowing the OS adminitrator great ability.  EG, putting tables on 
>>separate partitions and therefore greatly speeding performance.
> 
> One reason for not doing this is that a table in PostgreSQL might span
> mutiple files if it exceeds a couple of gigs in size.

They used multile files for tables, with a common pefix of the table 
name.  But they have dropped this them selves now.

I miss the way with MySQL I could delete a table, or move it, or back it 
up, manually using 'rm', 'mv' or 'cp'.

Working with IDE drives on PC's,  you can double the performace of a DB 
just by putting half the tables on a disk on another IDE chain.  Adding 
a DB using 'tar' is very a powerful ability.

But hay, if I missed it that much, I would not have moved! :)

>>-    They have extensive backup support.  Including now, 
>>concurrent backup 
>>without user interuption or risk of inconsistency.
> 
> 
> So does PostgreSQL (pg_dump/pg_dumpall).

I have used this, and it's a great command.

I could not work out from the documentation whether it takes a snapshot 
at the start time, or archives data at the time it find's it.  The 
documentation (app-pg-dump.html).  As the documentation does not clarify 
this very important point, I desided it's not safe to use when the 
system is in use.

Can this command can be used, with users in the system making heavy 
changes, and when takes many hours to complete, does produce a valid and 
consistent backup?

If so, you have all MySQL has here and in a more useful format.

> PS, it's nice you decided not to go to the Dark Side :-)

Thanks, Ben