Re: Bug tracking (was Re: +/- Inf for float8's) - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

[trimmed cc: list]

Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Don Baccus wrote:
> > Vince wrote:
> > >You really don't get it do you?

> > Yes, I do.

Vince, Don really does 'get it' -- he's just pretty vehement about his
'getting it'.

> > It's a toolkit, Vincent.  Once you grasp the notion that using a wrench
> > out of your toolbox doesn't mean you have to use every tool in the
> > toolbox you'll be able to grasp what I'm talking about.
> Yet you insist on shoving the entire toolbox down our throats every time
> there's a task to be done, Donnie.

One of the many useful features of OpenACS is that you get the whole
toolbox -- a toolbox, as opposed to a 'box of tools' -- Jensen makes a
nice profit selling toolboxes with matched tools -- neat, clean, trim,
and don't look anything like my four-drawer toolbox made up of a melange
of tools and a Wal-mart toolbox.

OpenACS is like the Jensen toolset -- you get a matched case, and
high-quality tools matches to the case.  With OpenACS you get a
framework that tools can be plugged into -- tools that were designed to
be plugged in that way (well, it's not perfect -- but nothing is). 
Everything can be covered by the system-wide authentication module, user
group module, etc.  Everything is designed to work smoothly together. 
so you only use authentication+SDM -- so what.  You can expand as you
need to -- and it doesn't take up _that_ much space.

PostgreSQL is much like OpenACS (barring the funny capitalization, but I
digress): PostgreSQL is a toolbox of database routines and modules, tied
together by a SQL parser and a large set of clients with matching
arbiter/backends.  Download postgresql-version.tar.gz, and you _have_ to
get the C++ code -- even if you don't want it.  You have to get pgaccess
-- even if you won't use it.  If you want to do meaningful development,
you have to keep nearly the whole source tree around......etc.  How is
this different from the OpenACS model?  Don't want a part of OpenACS? 
Nobody is preventing you from nuking that part from your installation
tree -- just like no one is preventing someone from installing
PostgreSQL in a client-only sort of way (much easier with an RPMset, but
I again digress.....).

PostgreSQL requires libpq -- OpenACS requires (but doesn't include)
AOLserver -- that analogy is not perfect, but close.  

And, OpenACS can run just fine under Apache with mod_aolserver. 
Although, since Marc has an AOLserver available and running.... :-)  and
a killer db server (bigger :-))...

Vince, Don: sparring like this is not productive.  Both of you are
excellent hackers -- I've seen both of your code.  Let's just make it
work, and see what the hackers think of it.
> > I answered your previous question plainly.  If you're not capable of
> > understanding the answer, don't answer with an invitation for a flamefest
> > you have no chance of winning, OK?

Flamefests are unwinnable.  All parties to flamwars get burned -- either
directly, or indirectly.  I have seen too many flamewars -- and it's not
worth the risk to reputation to go too far with one.  This one is mild
so far -- on a scale from one to ten, this makes it to one-and-a-half
thus far (I've been on news.groups and news.admin (and cross-posted to
alt.flame) more than once several years back....).
> When the day comes that you actually answer a question without telling
> the world that openacs, arsdigita, aolserver or whatever you want to call
> it is the answer and saviour to everything from world peace to who cares

Vince, try it.  You might like it.  But, it does require some different
thinking -- which if you don't have time to do, your loss.  Or, to put
it differently -- I just recently learned how to write CGI scripts. 
That may seem laughable -- but I had already written many dynamic web
pages using AOLserver TCL -- who needs CGI?  The current rush on PHP
programmers shows this -- many PHP programmers wouldn't have a clue how
to go about writing a CGI script -- and, guess what -- with PHP you
don't need CGI.  The AOLserver TCL API is like PHP on steroids in many
case -- and, in many other cases, PHP out-API's AOLserver.  

And I do remember that you _have_ tried AOLserver, about a year ago....

--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11