Re: [GENERAL] Installation simplicity - Mailing list pgsql-general

To be fair installing Postgres isn't as complicated as Oracle. See my
previous comments on installing Oracle[1]...

I did find the postmaster vs backend thing a bit confusing at first- plus
the fact that you need a Postgres user. I can remember thinking, what's
this postmaster thingy, and do I run it by myself and who do I run it as
(from the security and functional viewpoint). There's also the "what do I
do next?".

>./configure
>make
>make install
>
>have always worked just fine. i've rarely had any need/desire to deviate
>from the defaults (when i have, its been very easy to accomplish as well).
and
>this way you get a rdbms that is optimized for your system!
>
>after that, a simple initdb, createdb, add some users, and away you go.

It is actually quite simple once you know it. But when you start out not
knowing it it's not as simple.

Things people would probably like to know:
0) You need to know what to do next.
1) You have to know that you have to do initdb first, and who does it, and
what happens after that. Same for createdb.
2) Know how to set it to run everytime the system boots up...
3) How do you stop/restart it? When do you need to do that?
4) How to get to that SQL stuff? Ah Psql, not postsql :).
5) What's with the createdb as compared to CREATE DATABASE via psql. You
don't know that createdb is just a script which calls psql- it could be
some magical thing that you MUST run if not bad things happen later :).
6) What can you change? And what do you do if you change it? (relinking?
recompiling? restart?).

And if you suddenly want to turn on access controls - passwords for users
and stuff, the admin approach changes completely! You CANNOT use the
scripts (remember, you didn't know they were just scripts) you must shift
to psql, and the webdocs aren't as clear on that. Createdb? Now different.
Add user? Also different.

You need to know similar things for other systems. But for some reason many
users don't find these things as obvious when installing postgres for the
first time.

However all in all Postgres ain't that bad (a few other commercial database
engines spring to mind). Still I hope we aren't aiming that way ;).

For rule 0, sticking a basic HowTo with the source may help.

All this is not unexpected though: practically ALL databases engines are
different. What to run as backend/daemon, how to run, how to stop it from
running, what to run to admin it. Dates, times (how to set a field's date
and time to "now"), currency, numbers, indexes, counter vs serial vs auto
increment vs sequences+insert triggers. They're all different. And the
thing is all these details are rather important for practically any decent
database app!

Many times after we figure stuff out, we no longer understand why it was so
hard in the first place. This is a problem when writing docs for newbies..

Cheerio,

Link.

[1]
Is it just me, or is installing Oracle based on the Oracle installation
manual like doing surgery following an academic textbook? e.g. chapter 1
has 100 ways to do an incision. Chapter 2 has 20 ways on sewing up. Chapter
3 discusses anaesthesia. Chapter 4- tying blood vessels, (by the way please
refer to chapter 2 for more sewing hints)..
Also see Appendix A: Ways to hold scalpels. Appendix B: Washing.
And so on. In the end one has to go to the web and look for a HOWTO :).