Re: [LIKELY_SPAM]Re: Oracle and Postgresql - Mailing list pgsql-general

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 09:31:14AM -0500, Roberts, Jon wrote:
>
> Roberts, Jon wrote:
> > > My top 10 reasons why companies pick Oracle.
> >
> > Do you mean they actually get these things, or they imagine they do?
> >
> Huh?  Companies buy Oracle all of the time.

They don't get stuff promised in the "top 10 reasons" by any stretch
of the imagination.

> > There certainly are a lot of false perceptions out in the world
> > about Oracle, and about proprietary software in general.
> >
> > > 1.  24x7 Support
> >
> > At several different places over the years, I've seen their
> > top-tier support simply not respond.
> >
> That is highly unusual.  I've always had excellent experience with
> Oracle's support especially their top tier support.

Try calling them when you've hit one of their many un-fixed-for-years
bugs.

> > > 2.  Security: Patches,
> >
> > When they get good and ready.  There are outstanding security
> > issues in Oracle that have been there for years.
>
> I'm not saying Oracle is more or less secure.  I think people feel
> better about security from a company like Oracle rather than a bunch
> of hackers on an email list.

People may well feel that monkeys are going to fly out of Larry
Ellison's butt, but that does not make it true.

> It is perceived as more secure by many, especially large companies.

Large companies, as you put it, have a lousy track record on access
control, which is what you appear to mean by security.

> > > encryption,
> >
> > We have it.
> >
> PG can't encrypt code.

What makes you think this would improve access control or anything
related to security?  I'd submit that encrypting stored procedures
produces a false sense of security by giving people the impression
that they've done something when they have really not.

> > > protection of database code, etc.
> >
> > Are you saying that the fact that the source isn't legally
> > available to the population at large is a feature?  If you are,
> > it's an argument for security by obscurity, a system with a lot of
> > deep known flaws.
> >
> No, I'm saying that if I create a function in PG, ANYONE with access
> to the database can see my code.  That is not secure.  It is a
> security hole for the database.

This is precisely an argument for security by obscurity.  Feel free to
educate us all on why this suddenly became a good idea.

> > > 3.  Software indemnification (which is open source's biggest
> > > problem)
> >
> > Are you kidding?!?  Read the EULA for Oracle or any other
> > proprietary software package and then read the BSD license.  They
> > both indemnify about the same thing, i.e. nothing.  If you have
> > any examples in case law that show otherwise, they'd be a great
> > thing to bring forth.
>
> The contracts you sign when you buy Oracle indemnify you from
> lawsuits.

Feel free to cite one single case where this has actually worked.
Federal or state court, either one.

> > > 4.  Scalability of shared disk (Oracle RAC)
> >
> > RAC doesn't scale outside Oracle's sales literature, as far as
> > I've seen.
>
> I have.

We only have your word on that because Oracle's EULA expressly forbids
you from ever publishing such a thing.  Throwing more hardware at a
single-image system is much cheaper and more reliable in my
experience.

> > > 6.  Best, oldest, and most proven concurrency model for any
> > > commercial database product
> >
> > It's none of those things.
> >
> Which commercial database is better?  MS SQL Server, Sybase, DB2,
> what?

Depends what you're doing.  DB2 consistently beats Oracle for giant
transaction processing loads.  MS-SQL Server has way better end-user
OLAP tools.

> > > 7.  Runs great on various platforms not just Linux or just
> > > Windows
> >
> > Is this different from some other RDBMS(s) out there, and if so,
> > which one(s)?  The only "just Windows" RDBMS I've ever heard of is
> > MS SQL Server, and I know of no "just Linux" ones.
> >
> PG doesn't scale well on Windows.  DB2 seems to work best on a
> mainframe.  Sybase works best on Unix.  MS SQL Server only runs on
> Windows.

This is pretty specious.  *Nothing* scales well on Windows, and when
you get into RDBMSs that run on actual server OSs, they all do a
pretty creditable job.

> > > 8.  Recruiting a senior level Oracle professional with over 10
> > > years of experience is not very difficult
> >
> > Finding somebody with 10 years' experience is no problem.  Finding
> > somebody half-way competent is a different story.

*crickets*

> > > 9.  Deep, deep discounts.  I've never seen any company pay list
> > > price for Oracle products.  It has always been at least 50% off
> > > if not more.
> >
> > 50% off a price that's bloated by 1000% or more isn't much of a
> > muchness.
> >
> It is only the perception of a good deal.  So what?

For 90% off of your next 5 years of Oracle licenses and HR, I'll get
you converted to PostgreSQL.  The difference is that I can actually do
that, and you'll actually save money.

> > > 10.  Sales employees that will do anything to retain or grow
> > > your business.
> >
> > That's just great if you prefer hookers and blow to a working
> > RDBMS.
> >
> LOL.  That is pretty funny.  I'm talking about doing free work like
> a proof of concepts, demonstrations of products, etc.  I've even
> seen technical sales guys help out onsite for free for performance
> tuning an application.

You're being astoundingly naïf if you imagine that the hookers and
blow thing is a joke.

> > > The initial price of the product factors into the equation for
> > > big companies but when you look at all the value add of Oracle,
> > > it is very tempting.
> >
> > Their sales and marketing people have certainly done an excellent
> > job creating the perceptions above, among others, and spreading
> > them around the industry.
>
> Perception = sales.

So basically lying is a legitimate tactic.  This tells a lot about
you.

Cheers,
David.
--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com

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