Re: Change the name - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
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> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Josh Berkus wrote:
> >> Bruce,
> >>
> >>>>> I believe the next step we discussed was to get feedback from the
> >>>>> 'general' email list.  Correct?
> >> Wrong.  Completely and totally wrong.
> >
> > Are you trying to throw up roadblocks?
>
> Now he is trying to make you realize what level of job this really is. A
> great many people on this list have already proven excessively ignorant
> to the scope of work the name change proposal is.
>
> > That is my analysis.  I was just
> > suggesting we ask the general list.  Now maybe if you said I was "100%
>
> Bruce... consider the length of this thread on advocacy. Now you want to
> take it to general? Don't we currently have better things to do? Like,
> say getting 8.3 out the door?

I think we have to decide if we really want to do this, and I don't see
how we can do that without asking general.  I can ask people to email me
directly and put up a web page with comments, or just set up a web page
wiki to add comments.

> > You stated:
> >
> >> There's particularly no point in doing a survey of people's uninformed
> >> opinions about the issue; community members need to see a cost-benefit
> >> analysis *first,* not after a vote.
> >
> > Seems we have cost/benefit list already.  Based on your list below I
> > think asking 'general' should be done before "Poll non-users to find out
>
> Are you also going to communicate with the hundreds of thousands of
> users that having nothing to do with the PostgreSQL lists? If so.. how?

Well, we change things in every major release without asking
_everybody_.  I have seen few complaints about that processes.

> > I realize some people are trying to minimize the work involved, but some
> > are trying to maximize it too.
>
> No, they are trying to make sure it is done right, without barreling
> ahead and ignoring the requirements of others. A *lot* of people have
> put a huge vested interest in PostgreSQL and you in your arrogance are
> completely ignoring that.

Arrogance is one of my strong points.  You should see my weakness list.  :-)

> Our largest community has said "no". Our budding communities in Italy
> and France have said, "no. The only people that seem to really be
> wanting the name change are those whom it won't effect, like you Bruce.
>
> It won't effect you. You don't have to do anything but possibly change a
> couple of words in FAQ. Let's be realistic and look at the things and
> people this is going to effect, in a severe way.

Using your own measurements, you didn't ask everyone in those
communities either.

My basic issue is we can't use "asking for more details" to forever
block this change.  That's how organizations stop growing.

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>          http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                               http://www.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +