Re: Is my MySQL Gaining ? - Mailing list pgsql-general

Quoting Tony <tony@unihost.net>:

> I was thinking more along the lines of a company that said "Hey, we've
> got a core app on MySQL which is running like a bag of bolts, can you
> come and troubleshoot it for us."  A company quite rightly would get a
> little edgy with someone saying sorry guys, it's new DB time.  You'd
> want to go and work with them and help them to move in the right direction.

Ahh- that is definitely the type of thing we do.

> Keith C. Perry wrote:
>
> >Quoting Tony <tony@unihost.net>:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Sadly a company will believe anything that a consultant they trust tells
> >>them.  Otherwise there'd be little point in hiring a consultant to give
> >>them advice would there?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >There are different levels of trust and in addition sometimes consultants
> are
> >used for feasibility studies- "how would you do this?"  If you're telling
> me
> >you've never been in a situation where a client called you in because they
> want
> >to implement a project with certain products or other specification because
> they
> >have "done the research and want to proceed this way" then I'm very glad to
> hear
> >that.  No matter how much you are trusted as a consultant or technical
> advisor
> >you are still just a guide. That means it is possible for your client is
> "wander
> >off the path".  I remember in the not so long ago days when people wanted to
> run
> >certain hardware or software because to not do so would give the perception
> that
> >you were not up to par.  Sometimes what is used has nothing to do with using
> the
> >best product for the job.  That seems to be a sub-text of this thread.
> >
> >
>
> Exactly!!   I've been in a position where no matter how hard Linux has
> been rationalised as the right solution for a job, the management and
> board have been Windows Marketed, and refuse to go any other way.  I've
> also been at companies where the entire global operation was a Novell
> shop looking at an upgrade bill well into the high 7 digits, when MS
> came along and said well give you the OSs for free if you migrate.   You
> just can't factor in for situations like that.  Although some companies,
> like one I have just worked for, have no technical in house ability at
> all and listened to a reputable consultant, who didn't necessarilly make
> the right decisions.  The company certainly didn't have anyone within to
> checkup on the consultant with their own research.  These tend to be
> smaller companies with smaller budgets, staff number in double digits
> with 7 figure turnovers, these smaller companies are typically my normal
> client.  They've often been given advice which wasn't exactly long term
> advice.  My name seems to be getting thrown around as a trouble
> shooter/fixer.  I'd like the opportunity to get in on the ground floor
> of fresh projects, but sadly have not reached that reputable stage yet.

*nod*  I feel you there.   But there is really nothing you can do about that
though.  I do a lot of clean ups and a number of ground up and migration
products.  I tell you this tho- same thing I used to tell my students when I was
teaching- you **really** earn your rep on the clean up side of things.  Ground
up will do that but in this field its the maintanance that is more imporatant.
If you can support what you've done or management the growth of your application
your in trouble- like you said "long term".  I've seen consultant names talked
about for years because of how *bad* their design was too.  If you've got a good
rep now for clean-up, it only a matter of time before someone says, "well lets
go with Tony 'cause he going to do it right the first time".

> >
> >
> >>It seems rather illogical that you'd refuse to work with a company that
> >>had been given potentially sub-standard advice, based on what appears to
> >>be a theological view?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I'm sure the MySQL folks don't think they are sub-standard.  A fair amount
> of my
> >business is "clean up" so if someone said, "we have an app on MySQL that is
> not
> >working for us" I would most definitely be interested.  If someone said to
> me
> >what DB do I use to build applications, I would say PG.  If then someone
> says to
> > me that "well we're a MySQL shop" then I would have to hear more because
> >depending on what they want to do, I might not take on that project.  There
> is
> >nothing illogical or theological in that.
> >
> >
>
> Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Apologies as that's not how I
> interpreted your email.  My bad on that.

No prob  :)

> >
> >
> >>Either that or you have more consulting work than you know what to do
> >>with, that you can afford to base business decisions on an ideological
> >>basis.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >This really doesn't make sense.  Are you telling me you are going to accept
> any
> >an all work regardless of competency and confidence in that product?  Would
> you
> >really build a financial application on MySQL?  We both know that we all
> have a
> >certain ideology (read: religion) when it comes to our trade.  To be clear,
> I'm
> >not saying anything against someone who would use MySQL for a financial app.
>
> >I'm just saying that I would not (or at least try very hard not to) involve
> >myself in that project or any other project where I thought there was a bad
> >design or implementation.
> >
> >
>
> To a certian extend you're right although if I had something useful to
> offer to the project, I'd certainly want to be there when (inevitably)
> someone (MySQL) dropped the ball and make sure PG was right there to
> pick up the pieces.  I certainly don't have a religion though, I always
> try to use the right tool for the job at hand.  The bad thing about many
> advocates in the OS environment is that they have the Linux hammer, and
> everything they see tends to look like a nail. This is also true for
> MySQL and many other projects.

Heheh, ok, I see your point.  I gotta admit a good number of my Linux
implementations (and OSS) in general have come out of the fact that other
solutions have failed.  Sometimes thats frustration because you feel like saying
"I told you so" but in the end whats good for OS is good for OS regardless of
when it happens.  Damn that father time!  *laff*

> >When you are a smaller operation your reputation is going to weigh in a lot
> more
> >than a larger company.  I do not want my name to be tied to something
> >sub-standard.  If a consultant values his or her reputation I don't see how
> you
> > can NOT consider what products you are willing to put your name on the line
> for.
> >
> >
>
> Agreed, but MySQL is not bad for everything, like all software it has a
> place in the great scheme of things. IMHO it's a perfect way to get your
> feet wet in the RDBMS world, it's the next step up from Paradox, Access,
> etc.  How many key applications in a even a large company have you seen
> using Access,  it's natural project sprawl.

Hehe, yea those infamous Access "Apps".

Even though I use PG for everything, I know that MySQL is probably fine for most
web site servering up what I would call "lightweight dynamic content".  My
experience has taught me that most organizations will grow fairly quickly to the
point of needing something on the level with PG.  So, you can do it now
"properly" (with PG or something similar) or migrate it later (MySQL, Access, et
al).  If someone really wanted MySQL for something "light", I'm pretty sure I
would not have a problem putting someone on that project.  What I would not do
is commit a consultant to something that has all the markings of being a bear to
deploy and maintain.

> >
> >
> >>If I chose not to work with companies that used Windows as servers
> >>(because IMHO, Windows is not a good server environment) my house
> >>would've been repossessed, and I'd have probably starved by now.
> >>
> >>T.
> >>
> >>
>
> >12 years ago calling myself a consultant one day meant putting in a netware
> 3.11
> >server for a bunch of PCs and MACs and pulling coax.  Did I want to do that-
> I
> >can't really say because at the time I had to eat.  That for me is on the
> outer
> >fringes of this thread.  Few organzations are NOT using Windows somewhere,
> and
> >an increasing number of organizations are starting understand OSS solutions.
>  So
> >both world are merging so it not about avoiding and one thing.  Its about
> >picking an choosing your battles.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Keith C. Perry wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The way I look at it is that I probably don't want to deal with a
> >>>company that thinks that MySQL on windows is "good environment".
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


--
Keith C. Perry, MS E.E.
Director of Networks & Applications
VCSN, Inc.
http://vcsn.com

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