Re: [GENERAL] Oracle buys Innobase - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy
From | Javier Soltero |
---|---|
Subject | Re: [GENERAL] Oracle buys Innobase |
Date | |
Msg-id | 09C39A48-66D6-4722-A8EE-168542467F2D@hyperic.net Whole thread Raw |
In response to | Re: [GENERAL] Oracle buys Innobase (Jan Wieck <JanWieck@Yahoo.com>) |
List | pgsql-advocacy |
I agree with Jan. I think a good part of this whole situation has more to do with MySQL having a core part of its product be dependent on an external entity. Be they open source or not. I would think they have thought about this possibility at various points in the past. From where I sit, I dont see PostgreSQL having the same situation, but perhaps there's some other ridiculously popular extension to pg which I dont know about. I'd vote for just continuing to make a better product, compete aggressively on the pr front (where pg still has some way to go), and let the best player win. ___________________________________ Javier Soltero Hyperic | www.hyperic.net o- 415 738 2566 | c- 415 305 8733 javier.soltero@hyperic.net ___________________________________ On Oct 11, 2005, at 5:02 PM, Jan Wieck wrote: > On 10/11/2005 6:31 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > >> Jim C. Nasby wrote: >> >>> Of course one flip-side to all this is that if Oracle does attack >>> us it >>> actually lends credibility; it means they see PostgreSQL as a >>> threat. At >>> this point that could do more good for us than harm, depending on >>> how >>> exactly the attacked. >>> >> Well, that was MySQL's reaction to it, but I think the harm far >> outweighs the good for them. Its more like, "Oracle finds MySQL a >> threat, what is MySQL going to do now!" We don't want that kind of >> outcome. Also, there are ways of attacking that do not show >> Oracle as >> an agreesor, like hiring PostgreSQL developers. >> > > From the fact that there was first an Oracle announcement and then > some "calming words" from MySQL we can tell that this wasn't > friendly. If it would have been, they would have had a joint press > release instead of this big grin from Oracle and that clenched > teeth smile from MySQL in return. So I agree, they are in deep > trouble. > > Now the much I agree that we should be carefull and watch out, I > don't think we should be jumping to conclusions either. Nobody > outside Oracle knows right now what their real plan and their real > target with that acquisition is. > > Don't forget that only a part, although a substantial part, of > Oracles revenue comes out of the database business. One possibility > is that they try to do birth control against a low-cost R/3 > backend, which undoubtedly would be very bad for their CRM and ERP > business in several ways. After failing to build any open source > community, SAP had found MySQL, who was willing to maintain the SAP- > DB sourcecode for them. If Oracle squishes MySQL now, SAP is back > to square one on that project. There are many R/3 installations out > there that go well beyond 1/4 million dollars per year in DB > license fees alone. So even if they can only delay this development > by two to three years, it might pay off quite well. > > And look at it, all Oracle would have to do is to be so open source > friendly that they make InnoDB GPL only. Can you imagine the > confusion in the MySQL fan club if Oracle releases the next GPL > version of InnoDB and MySQL AB announces that they ripped out > InnoDB support and favor something with half the feature set instead? > > > Jan > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------ >> >>> On Tue, Oct 11, 2005 at 06:04:40PM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: >>> > We have entered a new phase in the possible attacks on PostgreSQL. >>> > > The purchase of InnoDB clearly shows Oracle is ready to >>> expend money to >>> > slow down competitive database technology. Now that MySQL has >>> been >>> > attacked, we should expect to be the next target. >>> > > Let's assume Oracle is willing to spend 1% of their revenue >>> or net >>> > income on attacking PostgreSQL. Given this financial statement: >>> > > http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=ORCL&annual >>> > > that would be USD $20-100 million. (The Oracle financial >>> statement will >>> > eventually disclose the purchase price of InnoDB, and we can >>> use that as >>> > a minimum amount they would be willing to spend.) >>> > > Now, I think Oracle realizes that the database will >>> eventually become a >>> > commodity based on their purchase of Peoplesoft and other >>> application >>> > technology. However, every financial period they delay that >>> time is >>> > more profit for them, so it is a cost/benefit of how much it is >>> worth to >>> > slow down PostgreSQL. Obviously they thought the InnoDB >>> purchase was >>> > worth it to slow down or control MySQL. Our goal should be to >>> make the >>> > cost of attacks higher than the benefit. >>> > > Here are the three most likely attacks on our project: >>> > > o Hiring > > Oracle could hire a large portion of our paid >>> or volunteer developers, >>> > thereby slowing down the project. Individuals would probably be >>> > approach as "We like your work on PostgreSQL and would like your >>> > expertise in improving Oracle", but of course once hired what >>> they did >>> > for Oracle would be unimportant. What would be important is >>> what they >>> > _don't_ do for PostgreSQL. >>> > > o Trademark >>> > > Marc Fournier owns the PostgreSQL trademark and domain >>> names. He could >>> > be attacked, perhaps by hiring him to do a job, causing it to >>> fail, then >>> > suing him to obtain the trademark, and therefore the right to >>> own the >>> > domain names. The trademark has not been enforced, and it >>> would be hard >>> > to enforce at this stage, but I think it would be effective in >>> gaining >>> > control of the domain names. >>> > > o Patents >>> > > Most technology people agree the software patent system is >>> broken, but >>> > it could be a potent weapon against us, though we have shown we >>> can >>> > efficiently remove patent issue from our code. >>> > > > There is probably nothing Oracle can do to permanently harm >>> us, but >>> > there are a variety of things they can do to temporarily slow >>> us down, >>> > and it is likely a attempt will be made in the future. There >>> are also >>> > possible threats to PostgreSQL support companies, though they are >>> > somewhat independent of the project. >>> > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http:// >>> candle.pha.pa.us >>> > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 >>> > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road >>> > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, >>> Pennsylvania 19073 >>> > > ---------------------------(end of >>> broadcast)--------------------------- >>> > TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an >>> appropriate >>> > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so >>> that your >>> > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly >>> > -- >>> Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com >>> Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117 >>> vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461 >>> > > > -- > #===================================================================== > =# > # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being > right. # > # Let's break this rule - forgive > me. # > #================================================== > JanWieck@Yahoo.com # > > ---------------------------(end of > broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? > > http://archives.postgresql.org >
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