Re: PL/java? - Mailing list pgsql-general

I hate arguing with you. And like I stated in previous posts, I'm
not trying to be entirely slanderous to perl... I'm absolutely not
anti-perl, so I will apologize for that now. I still use perl on
a daily basis. The only reason I stated that Java can be "better"
than perl in some areas is because of experiences in general, and
because some guy was gungho about perl being the savior's choice
of languages for Enterprise applications *cough*. Just as you do
not like to see perl discredited without substantial facts, I dislike
seeing Java being discredited because people think it is a pure
"marketing hype" or because it's JVM on their Windows 98 machine
running a swing app crashed their system.

I actually am interested in some benchmarks of perl versus java
if you have some.

This "argument" needs to _end_. Is there anyone else who sees adding
java as an advantage? If not, this is pointless.

All due respect,

Knight

-----Original Message-----
From: Randal L. Schwartz [mailto:merlyn@stonehenge.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 2:28 PM
To: Alex Knight
Cc: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] PL/java?


>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Knight <knight@phunc.com> writes:

Alex> You did not read what I wrote very well. First, I said that mod_perl
was
Alex> slower than "most any j2ee application". If you knew what j2ee was,
Alex> you'd know that it's generally limited to server-side internet apps
Alex> like servlets, jsps, etc...

If you'd just stop saying things that can't be backed up, I wouldn't
have to keep responding.

Where is your proof that mod_perl is "slower than most any j2ee
application"?

Alex> However, in some cases, Java does things better (just like
Alex> perl does things faster than Java in certain situations).

I'm still waiting for "Java does things better" to be demonstrated.

Alex> But perl has had the "most uses" for so many years because it is
Alex> easy to learn, not truely object oriented

Perl is a hybrid OO language, just like Java.  Now if you compare both
of them to Smalltalk, I see your point.  But Java has primitive types
that cannot be subclassed or extended, just like Perl.  There's really
no difference.  Perhaps you've not read "Object Oriented Perl" by
Damian Conway, to see just how rich Perl's object model is, even
compared to Java and others.

Alex>  (atleast the past few
Alex> years have been that way), does not require compiling to
Alex> simplify the execution process (i.e. fully interpreted), etc.

Perl is no more interpreted than Java.  Perl's compiler translates the
entire program down to bytecodes, and the bytecodes are then executed
by the Perl Virtual Machine, just like Java.  (I won't bring up any
benchmarks here... it's unfair to Java. :)

See... it's the nonsense you keep spouting that makes me want to slap
you silly.  Get a clue.  Perl is a serious, mission-critical language,
being actively developed by hundreds of people who depend on it to
remain stable, fast, and useful.

I've seen both.  Java has its place.  Perl has its place.  Stop
dissing Perl, because you are apparently unaware of what is actually
going on.  I guess that would make you a language bigot.

Alex> Expand on your "enterprise application". A true enterprise application
Alex> takes more than 3 days time to design and implement. Most "real"
Alex> enterprise applications have multiple layers of logic, etc. I don't
Alex> consider a script that queries a database for a password by 100,000
Alex> people a day to really be considered as Enterprise either.

And many "enterprise applications" are completely in Perl.
cbs.sportsline.com is 90% Perl.  Etoys.com was 100% Perl.  imdb.com is
100% perl.  valueclick.com is 100% Perl.  Amazon.com does all their
backend processing in Perl.  Boeing uses Perl in every step of their
cad/cam process... every number defining the 777 airplane was passed
through Perl.

Alex> If I was new to programming, and I started "preaching Java"
Alex> right off the bat, this conversation wouldn't be warranted. In
Alex> fact, I run into these types of Java developers who go around
Alex> saying they think Java is the best language ever, etc etc but
Alex> don't really have the experience to make that claim.

You smell a bit like that now though, mostly through your ignorance of
Perl.  Maybe you're not "unfounded pro Java", but you are "unfounded
anti Perl".  And I won't allow that here.  I'll certainly permit Perl
to lose on its technical merits, but I won't let Perl lose through
your ignorance of what it actually can be or do.

--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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