Re: PL/java? - Mailing list pgsql-general
From | Robert J. Sanford, Jr. |
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Subject | Re: PL/java? |
Date | |
Msg-id | HOEFIONAHHKFEFENBMNOAEPPCBAA.rsanford@nolimitsystems.com Whole thread Raw |
In response to | Re: PL/java? ("Alex Knight" <knight@phunc.com>) |
Responses |
Re: PL/java?
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List | pgsql-general |
note - i don't work for any of the companies whose products are mentioned below. i have performed evaluations of these products and the support provided when attempting to determine what platform my company's systems should run on. unfortunately, i did not choose orion and i am suffering for it now... some goober blathered thusly: > Have you ever actually used Java on an enterprise-level > application? Ever see the Tomcat webserver? It uses > 100MB of memory, drives the load on our server up to 8, > and doesn't serve nearly as fast apache. Do you really > want that in your database? first - don't complain about java because you or someone in your group/department/company made a poor decision on what tools to use. that's like complaining about mexican food when the only experience you have is eating an out- dated frozen burrito from the 7-11 freezer. when looking at the performance of java you have to take a look at two things - first you have to compare various java implementations against each other and then you have to compare the best java implementations against native c/c++ code. the following link does that. the java tests include tomcat, orion, websphere, and resin. jrun and weblogic were originally included in the testing but were both removed at their companies' request. the tests also compare orion vs microsoft asp running on win2k and iis5. all tests run on the same hardware. what i believe these tests clearly demonstrate is that java is not the problem, the implementation applications based on java is. i also do not believe that tomcat is a fair representation of java performance in that it is intended to be a reference implementation. as such, the code base should sacrifice performance for clarity. http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html while not in the benchmark i would also like to recommend jetty as an app server. it is an opensource, 100% java web and application server. in its base form it is "just" a web, servlet, and jsp engine. it does, however, have contributed code providing integration with other j2ee opensource projects such as the JBoss EJB engine. you can find the jetty home page at: http://jetty.mortbay.com/ and then they blathered some more: > Compare the speed of Oracle 8 with 8i if you don't > believe me. The stability is also much worse. Ever > see a JVM on any platform that didn't crash if you > looked at it cockeyed? Ever really trust the garbage > collection? I don't. I've found a memory leak in IBM > developed java libraries. Gotta restart that app > every once in a while to reclaim system resources it > gobbled up and never gave back. some mention was made regarding the performance of the oracle8i application server. well, oracle has realized that their performance was sub-optimal and rectified the situation by licensing the orion server for oracle9i. while money and politics most certainly play a part in any licensing arrangement they must also realize that making customers happy through the performance of their applications will lead to more money. the link to the press release is below. http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/index.html?759347.html all of that being said... i don't think that the person that started this thread did anything wrong by making the request they did. that is what opensource is all about - contributions, even just contributions of ideas, are welcomed. even so, there are several options that i see for getting it implemented: 1) its an open source project so implement it yourself. while i have never worked on modifying the code base i am extremely confident that the current developers will be more than willing to give you advice and pointers. 2) if #1 is not feasible either because you don't have the time, the inclination, or the experience then you can write a contract that will pay one of the postgres developers to implement it for you. 3) if that isn't feasible you can try to get a volunteer to do so. 4) if that isn't feasible then you either have to live with what you have, go elsewhere, or be quiet. to the person that blathered thusly in response to the request for java: > Merits of the language notwithstanding, I'd rather > not have a buggy, still under development > (depreciating everything under the sun with every > new iteration) JVM parasite in my DB. informed and intelligent debate is good. given that i believe such to be true, i would request that you refrain from blathering such vitriol and uninformed nonsense. not only is it for the good of the people on the list who don't want to hear it but it will also do you good by not telling everyone out there that you are a very silly person that doesn't deal with logic and/or facts. to everyone else on the list - if we all contribute a penny we could probably buy enough burritos from 7-11 to make sure that his hands and mouth are busy for a good long while. rjsjr
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