Re: State of Beta 2 - Mailing list pgsql-general

On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 10:18 AM, Kaare Rasmussen wrote:

>> repeat it.  Just any old developer can't do this -- it needs the
>> long-term focused attention of Tom, Jan, or Bruce.  And that isn't
>> going
>
> I believe that neither of these people was born with the knowledge of
> how
> PostgreSQL is working. An experienced developer with the time and the
> money
> would be able to solve your problem.
>

I'll take Tom's word for it that it wouldn't be trivial, so I don't
think its quite so casual as that. I
wouldn't mind stepping up, but doing so would negate the need, as my
business would fail.

>> to do it.  I care enough to do the work; but I have neither the deep
>> knowledge necessary nor the time to make it happen.  There are many in
>
> You and others state that this is a very important issue. But it's
> really only
> an issue if you can't ever have a service window. If people don't have
> service windows, they have very expensive solutions and ought to be
> able to
> afford the expense of a developer. They get so much for free, so if
> this is
> the only problem they have, they should collect and hire a programmer.
>

Having a service window and wanting or being able to use it for
something that is bound
to make people nervous are two different things. And the idea that
people without service
windows having enough money to hire developers is complete fantasy, I'm
sorry.

Look, I'm not pissing and moaning about the developers lack of
attention or anything. They do
an amazing job. I understand the 'scratch the itch' nature of the
development, and the great amount
of progress they've made with what was a huge pile of garbled code. At
the same time,
everyone wants to advocate Postgres as an enterprise-ready system. If
you're going to do that,
you have to acknowledge the stumbling blocks. This is one of them. I
can pretty much guarantee
that I will not be allowed to upgrade several clients' systems unless
there's a real show-stopper,
because once I tell them what I have to do they'll tell me to get lost.

I've already given up on Oracle and DB2, and I'm not going back, so
I'll deal with this situation
as best I can. That and I run a small shop, so I don't need to bow to
politics or services/brand
requirements. A lot of people are not so fortunate, and anything that
can be said against
Postgres (or MySQL, FreeBSD, Linux, JBoss, whatever) becomes a hurdle
when trying to push for it.


>> my position.  But those who could make it happen don't seem to have
>> the
>> care level to do so.
>
> They're occupied with other matters. And yes - they often choose from
> personal
> interest - and an upgrade tool will never make top 5 for any normal
> developer
> ;-)
>
>> What good are great features if it's a PITN to get upgraded to them?
>
> I still believe that users who can't upgrade are few and far between.
> If they
> are so many, why won't they sponsor the cost for an upgrade utility ?
>

We don't exactly meet for beers every Thursday. In the end, I imagine
it will still take the attention
of one or more of the core developers. If any of them want to be
involved, I don't mind considering the
possibility.


> --
> Kaare Rasmussen            --Linux, spil,--        Tlf:        3816
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> Kaki Data                tshirts, merchandize      Fax:        3816
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> Howitzvej 75               Åben 12.00-18.00        Email:
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> www.suse.dk
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