On Wed, Jun 7, 2023 at 11:37 PM Andres Freund <andres@anarazel.de> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 2023-06-05 13:40:13 -0400, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> > 2. While I wouldn't want to necessarily discourage a moonshot effort, I
> > would ask if developer time could be better spent on tackling some of the
> > other problems around vertical scalability? Per some PGCon discussions,
> > there's still room for improvement in how PostgreSQL can best utilize
> > resources available very large "commodity" machines (a 448-core / 24TB RAM
> > instance comes to mind).
>
> I think we're starting to hit quite a few limits related to the process model,
> particularly on bigger machines. The overhead of cross-process context
> switches is inherently higher than switching between threads in the same
> process - and my suspicion is that that overhead will continue to
> increase. Once you have a significant number of connections we end up spending
> a *lot* of time in TLB misses, and that's inherent to the process model,
> because you can't share the TLB across processes.
This part was touched in the "AMA with a Linux Kernale Hacker"
Unconference session where he mentioned that the had proposed a
'mshare' syscall for this.
So maybe a more fruitful way to fixing the perceived issues with
process model is to push for small changes in Linux to overcome these
avoiding a wholesale rewrite ?
>
>
> The amount of duplicated code we have to deal with due to to the process model
> is quite substantial. We have local memory, statically allocated shared memory
> and dynamically allocated shared memory variants for some things. And that's
> just going to continue.
Maybe we can already remove the distinction between static and dynamic
shared memory ?
Though I already heard some complaints at the conference discussions
that having the dynamic version available has made some developers
sloppy in using it resulting in wastefulness.
>
>
> > I'm purposely giving a nonanswer on whether it's a worthwhile goal, but
> > rather I'd be curious where it could stack up against some other efforts to
> > continue to help PostgreSQL improve performance and handle very large
> > workloads.
>
> There's plenty of things we can do before, but in the end I think tackling the
> issues you mention and moving to threads are quite tightly linked.
Still we should be focusing our attention at solving the issues and
not at "moving to threads" and hoping this will fix the issues by
itself.
Cheers
Hannu
