Re: Is my MySQL Gaining ? - Mailing list pgsql-general

The documentation needs to be opened up and interlinked a lot more. For
instance, one of the things that makes the PHP site work well, is
linking to related functions at the end of each function's description, eg:
http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.pg-fetch-all.php

However, check our PG documentation page about the "CREATE SEQUENCE"
command:
http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/interactive/sql-createsequence.html

That would be a prime page for linking to the sequence manupulation
functions. So as a result of this omission, we get many basic sequence
questions on the mailing list again and again. Now we would be forced
over to Google, if the internal search engine was not working. Assume I
am a newbie wanting to know how to get the last value for a sequence.. I
would type "last inserted value" into the search engine... In this
particular case, I got back no results.

Lets face it, Postgresql is great, but the docs are not. PHP was easy to
learn because of great function reference, interlinking (leads to
feature discovery) and excellent user contributed tips which are edited.
To this day, I still refer to my Postgresql Manual, because it is
actually faster to find information that way instead of on the website.
On the other hand, I never have to refer to a PHP dead tree manual.

In my humble opinion, here's what the documentation needs to make the
uptake of Postgresql better:
* A separate page for every Postgresql function
* Interlinking between related functions
* Interlinking between SQL Commands pages and function pages
* More examples of Pl/pgSQL functions
* A custom search engine to address the above -- not just sitewide search
* More encouragement of user posting to each manual page
* Comprehensive migration section (Oracle => PG, MySQL =>PG), not just
Pl/pgSQL examples!

I dunno, maybe as users of Postgresql, we could pool together some money
($50 each as a new year present), and get the PHP documentation guys to
help us out? They might be more inclined to, since they are dropping
MySQL from inclusion in PHP. My first $50 is ready to go if someone
organizes this stuff and gives me a Paypal email address to send funds
to. Everyone here has a vested interest in Postgresql (heck, my job
depends on it).

Let's give the documentation writers an applause, but at this point, it
really needs to move to the next level folks. Now let me get back to
migrating to 7.4 :-)

Warmest regards,
Ericson Smith
Tracking Specialist/DBA
+-----------------------+----------------------------+
| http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always   |
| eric@did-it.com       | follow the job through.    |
| 516-255-0500          | You know that." -Angel Eyes|
+-----------------------+----------------------------+



Dave Cramer wrote:

>Keith,
>
>Oh, there it is, in tiny print.
>
>Dave
>On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 15:03, Keith C. Perry wrote:
>
>
>>Quoting Dave Cramer <pg@fastcrypt.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Jeff,
>>>
>>>I agree; we have an apparent lack of awareness of many things. IMO this
>>>is more indicative of a lack of a unified presence than anything else.
>>>part of the project is on gborg, part of the project is on advocacy,
>>>.... etc.
>>>
>>>How would a newbie know to go look for advocacy.postgresql.org ?.
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 10:18, Jeff Eckermann wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>This has been an interesting thread, with lots of well
>>>>considered contributions.  The consensus seems to be
>>>>"PostgreSQL is plenty good enough and more, we just
>>>>need more people to know it, and an easier learning
>>>>path".
>>>>
>>>>What bothers me a little here is an apparent lack of
>>>>awareness of the work of the Advocacy Group.  They
>>>>have been organized for a little over one full release
>>>>cycle, but have already begun to achieve some
>>>>impressive things.  The release of version 7.4 saw a
>>>>well prepared press release, which was subsequently
>>>>picked up by journalists and featured (often lifted
>>>>word for word) in articles in a variety of IT industry
>>>>publications around the world.  The effect was to get
>>>>our marketing material in front of the eyes of many
>>>>readers, without them having to go looking for it at
>>>>all.  When did that happen before?
>>>>
>>>>I cite that as just one example of what can be
>>>>achieved by an organized and co-ordinated approach,
>>>>which is just what the Advocacy Group is working on.
>>>>The scope for more development along these lines is
>>>>huge, all that is needed is the passage of time, and
>>>>hopefully more contributions from more people.  I
>>>>recommend to all those whose interest was caught by
>>>>this thread to check out the pgsql-advocacy list, if
>>>>you have not already done so, and think about what you
>>>>might be able to add.  In answer to the obvious
>>>>question, I have been lurking on that list for a
>>>>while, and intend to make a contribution where I feel
>>>>fitted to do so.
>>>>
>>>>Maybe we need to invent some new solutions, but for
>>>>advocacy at least, we already have one.
>>>>
>>>>--- Ericson Smith <eric@did-it.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>A documentation system like the one over at
>>>>>http://php.net, would be
>>>>>fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups
>>>>>based on SQL commands,
>>>>>Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would
>>>>>go a long way to
>>>>>expose PHP to "the masses".
>>>>>
>>>>>In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face
>>>>>it, most data
>>>>>storage work could be easily and efficiently handled
>>>>>by text files,
>>>>>since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and
>>>>>updates, and mostly
>>>>>reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web
>>>>>follow this
>>>>>paradigm, and include:
>>>>>* Content management
>>>>>* Catalogs
>>>>>* Shopping cart stuff
>>>>>* User management
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of
>>>>>that too, but SQLite,
>>>>>Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well.
>>>>>There are going to be
>>>>>even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from
>>>>>Oracle to PG, because
>>>>>so many of those Oracle installations were overkill
>>>>>in the first place.
>>>>>Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the
>>>>>world, the un-sexy
>>>>>part of any organization that no one outside of the
>>>>>Development team, or
>>>>>System Administrators know about.
>>>>>
>>>>>Getting mindshare is a different problem. That
>>>>>requires PG to have a
>>>>>full time effective press person. This press person
>>>>>would need to be in
>>>>>touch with the press constantly to tell them things
>>>>>like:
>>>>>* PG is a great back for windows clients using
>>>>>ODBC/MS Access/Excel
>>>>>* PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
>>>>>* PG costs nothing
>>>>>* Free support is fabulous, and paid support is
>>>>>available
>>>>>* Development is constant
>>>>>
>>>>>In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an
>>>>>organizational
>>>>>structure so that its considerable assets can be
>>>>>fully realized, its
>>>>>wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and
>>>>>commercial users (our
>>>>>bread and butter), can have an official place to
>>>>>help sponsor features
>>>>>of the system and so on. All this is more than a
>>>>>website. Someone posted
>>>>>pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was
>>>>>nice, but there was
>>>>>this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt
>>>>>depressed, because
>>>>>that's how PG advocacy felt.
>>>>>
>>>>>Warm regards,
>>>>>Ericson Smith
>>>>>DBA/Developer
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>+-----------------------+----------------------------+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>| http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always
>>>>>|
>>>>>| eric@did-it.com       | follow the job through.
>>>>>|
>>>>>| 516-255-0500          | You know that." -Angel
>>>>>Eyes|
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>+-----------------------+----------------------------+
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Karsten Hilbert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>PG-only (although I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>eventually). Currently I have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>to my app. A native
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Windows version would make my life a bit easier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Same here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Our "clients" use legacy medical office software
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>that 99% runs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>mini-versions of our
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>PostgreSQL,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>offices and onto
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>their networks. Most of the time the main
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>difficulty is to figure
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>(yes, we know
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>about CygWin).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>("clients" because we don't do business as in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>selling stuff)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Karsten Hilbert, MD
>>>>>>
>>>>>>www.gnumed.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>begin:vcard
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>fn:Ericson Smith
>>>>>n:Smith;Ericson
>>>>>org:Did-it.com;Programming
>>>>>adr:#304;;55 Maple Avenue;Rockville
>>>>>Center;NY;11570;USA
>>>>>email;internet:eric@did-it.com
>>>>>title:Web Developer
>>>>>tel;work:516-255-0500
>>>>>tel;cell:646-483-3420
>>>>>note:Nothing special!
>>>>>x-mozilla-html:FALSE
>>>>>url:http://www.did-it.com
>>>>>version:2.1
>>>>>end:vcard
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>---------------------------(end of
>>>>>broadcast)---------------------------
>>>>>TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>Dave Cramer
>>>519 939 0336
>>>ICQ # 1467551
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>>>TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
>>>
>>>               http://archives.postgresql.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>I'm not trying to be curt with you or anything but a serious questions, did you
>>not see the links on the right side of http://www.postgresql.org under where it
>>says websites?
>>
>>