Re: Patent warning about the Greenplum source code - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

On Mon, Nov  2, 2015 at 10:36:48AM -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > but when Oracle bought Sun, more people
> > were concerned.  Someone could buy the company _just_ to sue for patent
> > infringement --- happens all the time.
> 
> Not as often as you'd think, and it hasn't happened in the database
> world yet, for some good reasons.  This is all besides the point,
> though; PostgreSQL has been accepting contributions from patent-holding
> companies for over a decade, and that doesn't seem likely to stop any
> time soon.  Greenplum is not in any way special, especially since we
> already accepted contributions from Greenplum Inc. back in 2005-2006.
> 
> Overall, this thread seems designed to kick up a lot of fuss with no
> potential useful outcome.  How about we terminate it now?

I am posting this at the request of Josh Berkus, who wanted
clarification on some issues.  FYI, I have been speaking in this thread
as a community member, and not as a member of core, and made some
mistakes in my handling of this --- my apologies.

First, I have always seen the best intentions from every patent holder I
have worked with in relation to Postgres, including the many Pivotal
employees I have talked to.  I understand the value of those patents to
their companies and their companies' valuation, and releasing any kind
of rights to held patents is never an easy decision.  I know all
companies involved are trying to deal with this complex issue in the
best possible way.

Second, if Pivotal had to chose one license to release their code under,
Apache 2.0 was absolutely the best one, because of the patent clause.  I
will continue to work with them or anyone else as requested to see if
there is an even better approach.

The crux of my concern is that a patent in close-source software is
barely visible --- it might be mentioned in marketing material or
documentation, but that is unlikely.  When something is released as open
source, by definition, the patented idea is visible in that code.  In a
strange twist of fate, open source actually allows more chances for
seeing patented ideas than closed source.  I should have made this clear
in my initial post, and there is nothing Greenplum-specific about any of
this.  My lack of clarity on this caused much confusion --- again my
apologies.

Steven might be right that if you don't know the patent is there, you
are not any more culpable than if you discovered the technique on your
own.  However, the odds of you getting a patented idea from looking at
the source is probably higher than the odds of you coming up with the
idea on your own.

Anyway, I just wanted people to be aware of these risks.  I doubt we can
really do anymore than warn folks as there is just no good boundary on
how to avoid problems, as Andres and Simon pointed out.  Josh is right
that patent problems have been a rarity, and I have every hope that this
will continue.

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com

+ As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. +
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