Re: TODO: GNU TLS - Mailing list pgsql-hackers

If you want real language-lawyer over-reach, check out this 2003 posting
that says our BSD license wording is not compatible with the OpenBSD BSD
license:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2003-11/msg00212.php

OpenBSD feels the "without fee" can be misinterpreted, so PostgreSQL was
removed from their CDROM.

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mark@mark.mielke.cc wrote:
> > > Now Exim has granted an exception that gets Debian off the hook, but
> > > they didn't have to do that.
> > Right.  If they didn't then it's conceivable that Exim could sue Debian
> > for violating the GPL license.  Not exactly likely to happen but being
> > cautious it's best to get their explicit approval rather than playing
> > the "well, we'll just wait and see if they sue us" game.
> 
> This is pure FUD, and unacceptable if spoken from a position of
> authority. State what you think this theoretical case would be. At
> least if you picked GPL including closed source code, you might be
> able to claim that the resulting derived work was not distributed
> complete with source code. OpenSSL, however, is open source. The only
> possible complaint could be "you failed to advertise OpenSSL in the
> resulting distributed image", which would be a correct observation,
> easily corrected by the inclusion of a note in the documentation for
> the distributed software unit that includes both pieces of software.
> This correction is an existing requirement for any software
> distribution that includes OpenSSL, It is an acceptable, and easily
> honoured requirement.
> 
> Anybody who has a problem admitting that their software distribution
> includes OpenSSL software in their documentation, has no sympathy from
> me. Attribution is an acceptable right to enforce under copyright law,
> and an honourable practice with or without a licensing requirement
> explicitly stating this as a requirement.
> 
> Caution to the point of fantasy is a waste of resources. Caution to
> further a political agenda (not you - but the people whose opinions you
> are repeating) is exploitation.
> 
> I am unable to find a single clause in the GPL (which I have analyzed
> many years ago, but also re-read several times in the last two days)
> that would make it impossible to satisfy all of the GPL, PostgreSQL
> (BSD) license, and the OpenSSL license at the same time. Every single
> clause of all three licenses can be easily satisfied without conflict.
> Those of you who are claiming otherwise, have failed to point to a
> single phrase in the GPL that could not be satisfied when distributing
> all three pieces of software as a single unit. Without a single point
> of true conflict between all three licenses, I do not accept that
> there is any case to require an OpenSSL exemption clause for
> Debian. Those who are doing so are doing a disservice to everyone by
> contributing to the general confusion on this subject. The clause is
> not required. The clause has no effect.
> 
> To distribute a software unit that includes software from all of a
> GPL product, PostgreSQL, and OpenSSL, one needs only do the following:
> 
>     1) Documentation for the software unit should include documentation
>        to describe that the software includes OpenSSL.
> 
>     2) The distribution of the software unit should include a text copy
>        of all three licenses.
> 
>     3) Source code for the entire unit should be provided. I don't believe
>        the FSF can legally enforce this requirement, however, with
>        GPL + PostgreSQL + OpenSSL, there is *NO* conflict. The source code
>        for all three can be made available upon request, or contained within
>        the distribution.
> 
>     4) Various other minor points, such as the requirement that changes
>        are dated and such. None of which conflict between the three licenses.
> 
> To state again. There is *NO* conflict between the licenses. The terms
> of each can be fulfilled completely, and separately, without
> invalidating each other. Those who claim otherwise need to point to a
> specific requirement from one of the licenses that would prevent it
> from being used. They cannot, because such a point does not
> exist. Ascii pictures. Hearsay. Confusion regarding existing practice
> or existing thoughts on the matter. No single point of conflict has
> been raised.  The GPL does not state that "GPL software may not derive
> from software that has an advertising clause." Considering that this
> is the primary point raised by people, it is ironic that the GPL has
> no such restriction.
> 
> Be honest about it. *You* don't like the advertising clause. The GPL
> has nothing to say on the issue, and therefore is *NOT* in conflict
> with it.
> 
> This thread has re-enforced my conclusion that the GPL is a poor choice
> of license for any product I ever work on in the future. A decade ago,
> as a teenager, I thought it was cool to put GPL on the software that I
> made available to the world. I felt like I was part of something bigger.
> Now I just feel disgusted. The GPL is not about freedom. It is about
> enforcing a world view on all who use your software.
> 
> Thank you PostgreSQL contributors for choosing the BSD style. I think
> it was an excellent choice.
> 
> This is my last contribution to this thread. I've said my piece.  Note
> that I don't intend to convert all of you. As this issue is primarily
> political, people will have a tendency to stay with their own camp,
> regardless of what is said. We all have a tendencies to read each others
> words, looking only for fault in what is said, purposefully choosing not
> to assimilate the other persons contribution. It's called the "I am right
> you are wrong" syndrome, and I'm not exempt from it.
> 
> I hope I provided value to this discussion. If not, I apologize.
> 
> Cheers,
> mark
> 
> -- 
> mark@mielke.cc / markm@ncf.ca / markm@nortel.com     __________________________
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> 
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> 
>                            http://mark.mielke.cc/
> 
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--  Bruce Momjian   bruce@momjian.us EnterpriseDB    http://www.enterprisedb.com
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