Re: PostgreSQL Advocacy, Thoughts and Comments - Mailing list pgsql-general

On 27/11/2003 09:19 Tony wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've just been reading an article in PHP Architect magazine
> (http://www.phparch.com) which is the cover story for October called
> "Migrating from MySQL to PostgreSQL".   I must say that this is a highly
> compelling article, especially for me, and is aimed at programmers that
> aren't necessarilly SQL experts or DBAs.  For instance, like many PHP
> Web developers who use MySQL instead of flat files to store stuff!
> Instead of using a DB as a powerful tool.  This article presents reasons
> as to why a more standards compliant DB is good for programmers, and why
> in some cases MySQL can be less of a friend to programmers than perhaps
> PostgreSQL.
>
> I honestly believe that if the advocates of PostgreSQL wrote an article
> or case study along the lines of this article, it would go a long way to
> attracting many more programmers.  In my experience all of the articles
> and tutorials are written from the perspective of why PG is a better DB
> as a DB.  Rather than emphasise aspects like "PG is great because you
> can move complicated code like this <insert complicated PHP/Perl code
> here> ..... normally dealt programatically to your DB which can be both
> faster and applied to any other programmers (VB, Java) that you are
> sharing the important enterprise data with.  I've not seen anything in
> articles aimed at PHP/MySQL users saying, "Hey, look at how these
> triggers can make your life soooo much easier" or  "Hey, look at how
> cascading can save you oh so much coding" or "Hey look at all this
> programmatical logic that can be put into queries just by writing your
> own functions"
>
> I have recently compared the PostgreSQL users to the Debian users (meant
> as a complement) by the fact that they are in general highly
> knowledgable of thier own subject and peripheral subjects too.  They are
> passionate and well versed, and happy to nudge people in the direction
> of enlightenment without spoonfeeding them.  But in the same way, the
> advocacy (IMHO) falls into the same boat as Debian.  There is a certain
> self-assuredness that PostgreSQL is a far superior product and if
> someone can't see how obvious that is then maybe PG isn't for them (a
> little harsh I know  but I'm trying to illustrate a point).
>
> My point is that there are thousands, tens of thousands of programmers
> out there, that need to know why and how PG is so great.  My eyes have
> now been fully opened by this article, and got rid of my nagging feeling
> that there was something great about PG that I "Just wasn't grasping,
> and couldn't put my finger on".   Maybe the advocacy team should be
> aiming for all those programmers that desperately need PG, but don't
> know it yet, and probably don't have time to garner enough DB experience
> to understand why they need it!

Maybe there's not such a need for the advanced features of PostgreSQL
amongst PHP programmers as you seem to believe. Most of the PHP stuff I've
seen is read-only content display stuff and that doesn't really require a
top-notch RDBMS; a more limited database should also be up to the job. For
complex transactional web applications, J2EE/Model II is a far superior
technology to scripts/Model I and that means a different target audience
for the apps where PostgreSQL can offer those essential extra features.
Whilst most J2EE developers will be using Oracle/DB2/MSSQL as their
back-end, the awareness of PostgreSQL seems quite high and, in the few
usenet groups I monitor, I don't recall anyone being flamed for
recommending PostgreSQL over MySQL. Maybe seasoned, professional
developers don't like being told that they're crap programmers just
because they ask for something as fundamental as referential integrity!

Coming to your point about advocacy, I certainly don't recognize what you
describe. Of course the members of the advocacy group believe in the
quality of PostgreSQL (a view shared by most of the subscribers to list).
What I think you need to bear in mind is that PostgreSQL is a genuinely
open-source product _not_ a commercial product in GPL clothing like MySQL.
The developers and advocates are not making $xx per box shifted or trying
to seduce users down a supposedly free path into their licensed software
lair. That has a big effect on advocacy. Instead of smarmy marketing types
who rely on spread FUD and misinformation about every product they
consider a competitor, we have a group of people acting with honesty and
integrity. Welcome to the real world of open source :-)

--
Paul Thomas
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